MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

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Jim Hatt

Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by Jim Hatt » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:04 pm

mirvin,

I don't know how much you have explored the other areas of the forums here, but Greg is the moderator of the Forum TRAVEL IN THE DESERT at http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewforum.php?f=7 You can either hook up with him there or email him at: gsmith@mvdsl.com. if he doesn't contact you here first.

Jim

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by bassboatboy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:27 pm

Intresting post & details. All three thoughts added crossed my mind as I was reading;
1) the mine being 75 feet across? would have to have been covered up or a large scale slide,
possible since we pretty much know their was a shaft opening on the hillside below.
2) a visit, just to the area like Mike mentions seems like a great suggestion. Even just to see the weavers needle and area around would be a great spring or fall road trip and outdoor weekend.
3) I believe the day will come when somebody finds or figures this out! This is absolutely true... my father showed me sounding maps in the late 1960's at our home in San Diego. I remember at the time he told me not to talk about them. He said a couple of his buddies had invested in new technology used from the air. It was listed as prospecting, he said two maps were from the colorado river area and that the plane had flown further and had shot one sounding in the superstion mountains. Someday, someway I believe the technology will exist to uncover this mystery.

Jim Hatt

Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:51 pm

Welcome to the Forums BBB,

Sounds like you have been interested in the LDM for a long time.
A trip to Weaver's Needle is something that you would carry fond memories of for the rest of your life. There has been a lot of history written about that area, but there hasn't been much gold found around there. Celest Jones believed that Weaver's Needle was hollow and that the Jesuit Treasure was hidden inside it. Ed Piper and Al Marrow believed there were old Spanish Mines in the area, but as far as recorded history goes, nobody has even found any placer in the washes around there. If you are looking for gold, your prospects are better a couple miles North or East of the Needle. If you are looking for History, then the Needle is the place to go.

Busca El Mapa,
Busca El Coazon!

Jim


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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by djui5 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:41 pm

bassboatboy wrote: 3) I believe the day will come when somebody finds or figures this out!

I'm almost there :lol:

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by alaskabill » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:14 pm

djui5 wrote:
bassboatboy wrote: 3) I believe the day will come when somebody finds or figures this out!

I'm almost there :lol:
Would you "throw us a bone" with a little elaboration?

Bill

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by djui5 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:28 pm

alaskabill wrote:
djui5 wrote:
bassboatboy wrote: 3) I believe the day will come when somebody finds or figures this out!

I'm almost there :lol:
Would you "throw us a bone" with a little elaboration?

Bill
Bill,
I don't know anything that quite a few other "Dutch hunters" already know. Just need to spend some more time hiking in the mountains. U never know, someone is going to get lucky and stumble upon the mine one of these days. I really doubt it'll be found by following clues. There were too many people very close to Waltz that knew exactly what he said and couldn't find it. These days we are far separated from the "facts" and so many lies have been told for so long that it's really doubtful more than a handful of people know the truth about what was said. After all, that is all anyone really has to use as a starting point, Waltz's directions given to whoever by word of mouth.

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT

Post by AshtonPage » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:14 pm

Jim Hatt wrote:There is one thing in Ely's book that has always stuck in my craw... It is the part about the mine being 75 feet across, and it is mentioned again in Northcut's story above. There is no direct quote from Julia (Helena) or Rhiney describing it that way that I know of. Neither the Two Soldiers or anybody else described it like that either that I know of. Has anybody ever heard of it being described like that other than Ely's book?

There is something wrong there! If it were that big, you would think it would have easily been spotted by someone flying over the mtns by now. Back in the 60's there were a lot of helicopter trips all over back there.

Jim
Sims pg 109 - Waltz speaking to Julia: “The gold’s in a pit that the Mexicans started from the top. My partner and I just dug it deeper and it’s not very far across.”

My opinion is that 75 feet across was an assumption made because the mine was described as: "a round pit, shaped like a funnel with the large end up" ibid 102.

My personal opinion is the mine is 75 feet deep (there's a description somewhere, I'd have to look it up if someone wants the reference). So 75 feet deep and shaped like a funnel leads one to make the mental image of an inverted funnel (with a 45 degree divergence on each side) therefore the assumption that it would also be 75' across. But Waltz tells Julia "it's not very far across"

If the pit is 75 feet across, you would not need the vertical timbers with notches (toe holds) to climb out of the pit as described on pg 102 because you can walk a 45 degree incline without assistance.

Another issue is why in the world would you cut a 75 foot wide pit to follow an 18" vein?

Best,

Ashton

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT

Post by GeorgeW » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:34 pm

AshtonPage wrote:
If the pit is 75 feet across, you would not need the vertical timbers with notches (toe holds) to climb out of the pit as described on pg 102 because you can walk a 45 degree incline without assistance.

Another issue is why in the world would you cut a 75 foot wide pit to follow an 18" vein?

Best,

Ashton
Notches would be handy because the sides of a newly dug pit would likely be pretty loose.

18" is only one dimension of the vein. I've seen veins that were 2" by 10' on the surface. Unfortunately, the only color in the quartz was from lichens or mineral stains. If the vein was 18" by 15-20 feet then a pit could easily grow to 75 feet as miners dig it down to remove the ore.

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by Crazy Old Man » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:56 pm

I have been researching "The Lost Dutchman Gold Mine" for many years. This is the most complete and correct article I have read about the LDM. I am going to print the article for further review. The LDM does exist. I feel I have found the general location. However, this is just supposition. However, I will state I am not a miner or a cowboy. So perhaps I did.

In the forgoing research, I found that there were many lies. However within the lies the truth could be found. In the article: THE GERMAN CODE, desertus.com the directions given to Julia Thomas by Jacob Waltz were correct. However, the start point of the forgoing were not from Phoenix. In addition, the map Jacob Waltz gave Julia Thomas was correct. You have to know what your looking. The Holmes map appears to be correct in a general way. From location where Adolph Ruth's head and body was fund it appears he did indeed find the LDM. The key to the lost LDM is the Peralta Stones.

II wrote a supposition essay (in the self published e-book "THE STONE SPOKE") about the Peralta Stones titled: "THE PERALTA STONES FIND THE LOST DUTCHMANGOLD MINE". The forgoing supposition essay leads to the (supposition) general location of the LDM on the Fremont Saddle.

Eureka! Crazy Old Man

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by Hooch » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:09 am

Must have been a pretty "rich" mine considering waltz live in a shanty and was a chicken farmer, that and the fact there are no written assays or records of him turning in any gold ore. :lol:

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