sworn to secrecy, I found the LDM accidentally TRUE STORY

[cubfan64]

jim i know one thing for sure if i was a park ranger and was wandering around at 2 am and was gonna enter someones camp you can bet i would be announcing my presence before i got myself shot for this (ranger) to be creeping around this guys site and to be hideing in the shadows even after being outed and to see he isnt carrying anything other than a flashlight would leave me with a very uneasy feeling one would think that a properly trained ranger would do the opposite thing that this guy did and would be carrying at least the basics with him including water after all wasnt he looking for someone who was lost sounds sketchy to me

I wouldn't spend too much time trying to analyze his story - there's far too many holes in it to waste valuable brain cells on imho . I'd just check back now and then for the upcoming photos and leave it at that.

[Jim Hatt]

Cubfan,

My first thought was to just delete it and forget it, but he would have just come back with another one, or posted it on another website.

People like yourself, Zen, and djui, can read it and see right through it, just like I did when I first read it. But there are a lot of visitors and members of this forum that have never been hiking or camping in the Superstitions.

DesertUSA is a huge website that draws people from all over the world, that are interested in learning about the Amereican Southwest. These forums are just a small corner of it. If you will notice, the ratio of views vs posts are nearly 100 to 1. There are a lot more visitors here than there are members. One of the reasons I wanted to take this story all apart, and expose it for what it is, was for the benefit of those visitors that might not have seen anything wrong with it and actually believed it.

I am aware of the fact that by doing this, we are also educating Bubba, and his next attempt to deceive will probably be much better planned/written than his first one was. I don't think he will be able to slip it past US tho.

Did you and Roger make another trip into the mountains this year?

Jim

[cubfan64]

Cubfan,

My first thought was to just delete it and forget it, but he would have just come back with another one, or posted it on another website.

People like yourself, Zen, and djui, can read it and see right through it, just like I did when I first read it. But there are a lot of visitors and members of this forum that have never been hiking or camping in the Superstitions.

DesertUSA is a huge website that draws people from all over the world, that are interested in learning about the Amereican Southwest. These forums are just a small corner of it. If you will notice, the ratio of views vs posts are nearly 100 to 1. There are a lot more visitors here than there are members. One of the reasons I wanted to take this story all apart, and expose it for what it is, was for the benefit of those visitors that might not have seen anything wrong with it and actually believed it.

I am aware of the fact that by doing this, we are also educating Bubba, and his next attempt to deceive will probably be much better planned/written than his first one was. I don't think he will be able to slip it past US tho.

Did you and Roger make another trip into the mountains this year?

Jim

Don't want to divert the thread too much, but yes Roger and I got into the mountains a bit during my trip. I was only there for 9 days with 2 of those being spent mostly at the Rendezvous site. I got to visit the soldier's grave in Bark's Basin, then Roger and I spent a couple days nosing around the Massacre Grounds looking for odd pieces of artifacts and/or any remaining ore samples.

I had several days to myself so spent one exploring not far from the site of the old Tortilla Ranch, another to the S and far W of Black Crosse Mesa and the last day before I left I took a long hike from 1st water to Aylor's camp, up over Bull Pass and then up through Marsh Valley and past Squaw and Deering Canyon's before heading back west to hook back up through Garden Valley and back to the car.

The weather was great for hiking - a little chilly to be sleeping outside a few of those nights, so luckily Roger had a rental RV that I got to sleep in.

I'm still trying hard to familiarize myself with the surroundings in there visually - it's one thing to be able to visualize a topo while out there, it's quite another to look at a mountain or canyon and just "know" which one it is without getting out a map or GPS. I still have a LONG ways to go but am already planning another return trip next year.

Got to spend quite a few hours researching at Greg's as well.

Didn't see a single snake, scorpion, centipede or spider this trip, but did stumble across a small family of white faced coati who scolded me for interrupting their afternoon before running off. I had another good time out there.

[Jim Hatt]

Cubfan,

Don't worry about straying off the topic here. This forum Gold Prospecting & Treasure Hunting is pretty broad based, and this topic of Bubba's has no real base at all. I try to keep things in the LDM Sub-Forums more on track but I am not always successful, as I am sure you have noticed.

You packed a lot of hiking into a short period. I applaud you for the way you are indoctrinating yourself to the mountains. You are seeing a lot of different country, and attacking the legend from many different angles. You appear to be keeping an open mind, and sizing everything up for yourself.

I made the mistake of locking into a certain area early on, and burning up too many years there, before I got out and looked around at the rest of the range. By the time I figured that out, my hiking legs were 3/4 spent, and we don't get any younger as time passes.

I still have my horse, but more often than not, he has no desire to fight his way to the top of some of the mountains I want to look down from, or through the bushes so thick that he cannot see the ground, and where he is going to be stepping next. He likes to look the ground over real good out there, and plan ahead for where is going to place each one of his feet before advancing forward.

He wasn't like that 10 years ago, but as time passes for him too, he is getting smarter than he used to be. He used to trust me blindly, and do anything I asked of him. Nowadays, he is more into looking things over for himself, and having a "say" in the decision about where we are going to go, and which way we are going to get there.

There are places we have been to before, that he refuses to go to again. He has his way of letting me know that he is willing to wait in the shade and nibble on the grass, while I go "up there", but he has been there, and done that, and has no desire to do it again.

Glad to hear you had a good time, and no mishaps! Hope you got some good photos that you can share with us. If you can do a writeup of your trip without giving away any of the angles you are working on, it would be a pleasure for me to move it into the TRUE STORIES - CHASING THE LEGEND Sub-Forum.

Busca El Coazon my friend!

Jim

[cubfan64]

I'll see if I can get something put together, but it will likely take a little while as I've been swamped with work since I got back.

For what it's worth, my approach in the Superstitions is as follows:

Since I don't live in the area and my actual time in the mountains is very limited, I believe if I were ever to discover the LDM, it would be as a result of either sheer luck, or I would have to come across a specific clue that has never been found (or interpreted correctly). Outside of those two things, I don't believe I have a chance in heck of locating it. So with that said, I feel that my greatest odds lie on the "sheer luck" side.

Because of that, my main goals on my trips is to first familiarize myself with the mountains themselves, and then most importantly to get off the beaten path and just explore everywhere and anywhere I can reach. Ever since I was a kid, I always loved exploring woods, creeks, caves, etc... - the more out of reach, the better. There's just something built into my genetics that gets a rush out of feeling like I'm somewhere where few people have ever been before.

A also firmly believe that there are more things in those mountains still waiting to be discovered (or rediscovered), and again, my greatest chance of finding something unique is to go where it looks like very few people have ever gone before.

I still enjoy the research - thus the hours spent at Greg's - because I really enjoy discovering the history of the area as well. Plus, I have a sense that just as in the mountains, somewhere in the archives of information there are little gems of information that may lead to something special.

I have very few regrets in my life, but I often find myself lying in bed at night wondering what things would have been like if I had let my heart guide my career choices rather than my head. I believe I have the heart of an explorer - I just let my head convince me that it would be a foolish path to take. At this point of my life, I'm content with satisfying my heart with a few forays into the mountains every year

Anyways - sorry to go off on some soliloquy - sometimes it just comes out (hehe).

[desert wanderer]

Hi everyone, although I'm still learning the facts related to the lost dutchman mine, I do know enough to say that the previous guys' posts seem very accurate. I trust their assessments of "Bubba" and his fractured story of finding the mine. To add to my angst, it was very difficult to get through the story, as his story was close to being unreadable due to his apparent almost functional illiteracy. I doubt very much that he found the mine!
Interesting story, but based upon what everyone has said here, and what I know about the mine, I'd say it must be bunk!

[Jim Hatt]

I feel that my greatest odds lie on the "sheer luck" side.

Cubfan,

I was raised to believe that "Luck" is the point where Preparation meets Opportunity. The research you do 51 weeks of the year prepare you for the one week per year you have the opportunity.

I have said this before, but it is worth repeating at every opportunity. There is a lot more out there to be found than just the LDM.

Things pop up in the strangest places! The more familiar you are with all the legends of Superstition Mountain, and the more ground you cover, the greater your chance of getting "Lucky".

I am sure you already know that, without me telling you, and it has been one of the driving forces, that got you over the ridges and through the valleys, but it never hurts to hear some poaitive reinforcement of your beliefs.


_____________________________________________________

desert wanderer

Welcome to the forums if I haven't already welcomed you.

As a newcomer, you will probably get the most out of Michael Chabak's discussion at:

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1166.

Some of us that have been following the LDM for a long time, get a little impatient with Mike's way of circling and re-circling a subject, without ever appearing to break out of the circle, and form a theory or conclusion. But his style has it's value, and his input is a valued addition to this Forum. Especially for people like yourself, that have not already experienced many years, of going 'round in those same circles.

If you take the time to follow and understand what Mike is saying, you will learn a lot, and save yourself a lot of time researching the multitudious volumes of information on the subject, and understanding the Enigma that surrounds the LDM.

You will not figure out where to dig for the "Dutchman's Gold", by reading Mike's explanation of the Enigma, and that was never his intent. But you will get a better understanding of the strategy of the search, that Cubfan and I have been discussing above, vs trying to find that one "Magic" clue in the printed material, before actually going out into the mountains to search.

Jim

[desert wanderer]

Jim, Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it! I live in Seligman,AZ. and its hard for me to get down to the Phoenix area to roam around in the Superstitions(unfortunately). Everyone on this topic/forum, seems to be knowledgeable and well informed.
I am not a newbie when it comes to gold prospecting, and when I lived in California I did quite a bit-and even found a bit of gold on occasion.
I was wondering if you or anyone else on this forum has ever done any prospecting in northern AZ. Sorry this question is not in the correct format and location.

[cmarsh51]

New to this, I have visited this Forum a few times. Since being retired for a couple years, I have had the urge to prospect. Seems like you have been searching for the LDM for a long time. Any advice on how to get started? Time is of no importance since im single but my main concern is doing this alone. Can't seem to find anyone around my age that has the time or without restraints to go treasure hunting. Of course living in Florida it would also be a long trip. But like I said time is of no importance....

[Jim Hatt]

cmarsh

You are in one of the best places in the world for Treasure hunting.
Ever wonder why they call the East coast of Florida the "Gold Coast"?

You need to get down around Vero Beach or Ft. Pierce and work the sandy beaches on the East side of the Barrier Islands.

In 1715, a Spanish Fleet carrying tons of gold & silver coins, bars and various other forms of Treasure, sank a short distance off the coast during a storm.

Check out the Links below:

http://www.1715fleet.com/

http://www.atocha1622.com/Mike%20Maguir ... Hunter.htm

http://www.wreckoverysalvage.com/page11.html

http://www.tuspain.com/heritage/gold.htm

You will not find the Dutchman's Mine there, but the scenery on the beach (Bikini's and all) will be a lot easier to look at, than the cacti, dry washes and rattlesnakes are in the mountains here.

I used to work with people at the St. Lucie Nuclear Power Plant, that had gold coins, they found on the beaches a few miles north of the Power Plant after a storm.

When/If I ever retire from chasing the legends of Superstition Mountain. That's where you will find me. Swinging my metal detector, smelling the salt air, and stumbling over my own feet every time a Bikini goes by... whenever I am not fishing on the other coast!

Hope that helps. If you have any more questions, you can either find me right here, or not too far away from you on the beach.

Jim Hatt