THE LATIN HEART

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Jim Hatt

THE LATIN HEART

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:40 pm

The story about the Latin heart that is included in my article at:

http://www.desertusa.com/ldm-1/peralta.html

Has come into question about the accuracy of my memory concerning some of the details in it, when I wrote it.

I had a meeting with an individual last Tuesday afternoon that knew Bill Hidden, and worked closely with him during the last year of his life. In my article about the stone maps I identified Bill Hidden as the man I thought Al Reser told me had found the Latin Heart. I was in error!

When Al and I had that conversation, it was about two hours long. Al did not like people taking notes when he was talking and it was difficult to get him to talk in front of a recorder. I had to drive all the way from Apache Junction back to Tempe, where I was living at that time, before I could make a written record of the things Al had told me.

My memory has been jogged, and I am sure now that Bill Hidden was not who Al said was the finder of the Latin Heart. Bill Hidden's name was mentioned by Al as someone who had seen the Latin Heart, handled it, and made the paper tracings of it that we have today. He was also present when he man who found it broke it up with a sledge hammer. I have the whole story on tape. I will convert it into an audio file and post it for download, for anyone that is interested, just as soon as the man telling the story on the tape, reviews it and gives his permission.

I also learned yesterday that Bill Hidden spent many hours with the original stone maps. One of the things that bothered him about them, was that the heart insert did not fill the heart cavity in the large stone. Everything else about the stones appeared to be so carefully planned and executed when the maps were made. He couldn't fathom why the map maker would make such a deep cavity for such a thin heart stone.

When he first saw the Latin Heart, he had what he thought was the answer! The Latin Heart was thinner than the original heart... Together, they would both fill the entire deep cavity!

I know... That doesn't tell us where to dig. But it does present some new possibilities to be considered. The part of the Latin Heart story about it being crushed, was always a difficult for me to accept. No more!

For anyone interested. The individual that told me this story can be contacted by e-mail at: dnjharnish@gmail.com



Jim

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Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by djui5 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:07 pm

Whoa! Can't wait to hear the interview :shock: :shock:

Jim Hatt

Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:26 pm

It's really good djui. This guy's memory is very sharp on the details! His association with Bill Hidden took place in the early 90's. I'm not sure when Hidden's association took place with the other guy. Duhhhhhhh, forgot to ask. I don't know how good he is with computers and don't think he has ever posted anything in a forum before, but he was interested in learning. I got an email from him this afternoon that said he intended to register and participate.

Let's keep our finger's crossed and hope.

This is the only person I have ever met besides Al Reser that knew Bill Hidden personally, and it sounds like he was closer to Hidden than Al was.

As far as I know he is the only living person that worked on following the clues on the Latin Heart with Bill Hidden! I finally have someone telling "almost" the same story that Al told me. The only differences are most likely due to my own faulty memory.

If he doesn't show up on here by the end of the weekend, I will send him an email asking if I can give his email address out to people interested in corresponding with him about the Latin Heart.

I know he is familiar with sending and receiving email.



Jim

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Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by djui5 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:51 pm

That would be great, either way. Thanks for setting this up. Forums can be quite confusing sometimes to people who are not familiar with the internet.

Jim Hatt

Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:08 pm

Very True!

And this one is set up a little different than most. Non Registered visitors cannot even see that these Sub-Forums exist.
Log out and look at the Board index again and you will see what I mean.

Some "Registered Members" don't even know about the Sub-Forums.

I have a personal friend that keeps sending me an e-mail, asking me to send him a link to the LDM Sub-Forms (again) because he can't find them, and already deleted the last one I sent him..

Some people are just "Internet Challenged" I guess. :lol: :shock: :D



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Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by somehiker » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:05 pm

Any updates?

A scenario that I am working with:

I am probably expressing the obvious.Ideas that have been discussed at least privately between those with the belief that the Latin Heart is genuine and connected to the location that one would find at the end of the trail,depicted on the two-part Map stones.This heart,more than the "map heart" is what I consider to be the artifact that ties the map set to the Jesuits.
I would,myself,be inclined to suspect that the "features" shown on the "descriptive" side were meant to orientate the map reader to the features that were,and probably remain visible within site of,or very close when viewed from what I suspect was originally a work camp/headquarters where refining and casting was the purpose.These "features" would,of course,be within the field of view that one would have while standing in the relevant position as indicated and facing to the direction that the arrangement of the word implies.
The reverse side of the heart I suspect,based on the obvious similarity of the inscribed numerals with those that appear on refined gold and silver ingots of the period,might very well be both an inventory and show the location(s) where each group of ingots bearing the various stampings as shown and part of this "last load" were to be buried.This "last load" was never delivered,in my opinion,due to the loss of both the stone maps and possibly the guide who was in charge of the mission.This may have occurred during an attempt to cross Queen Creek during a flood event.Without the maps,or a guide to the intended location,the ingots etc. may have been cached in caves,or buried near the last point of travel by the remainder of the expedition.The possibility exists as well,that the group split up in a fruitless search for the facility,which could explain the reported finds of gold bars and concentrated ore in various such locations.

Regards:SH.

Jim Hatt

Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by Jim Hatt » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:03 pm

somehiker wrote:I am probably expressing the obvious.Ideas that have been discussed at least privately between those with the belief that the Latin Heart is genuine and connected to the location that one would find at the end of the trail,depicted on the two-part Map stones.This heart,more than the "map heart" is what I consider to be the artifact that ties the map set to the Jesuits.
Regards:SH.
SH,

That Latin Heart was the "clincher" for me too!

Unlike all the other pieces of the stone maps, that people can come up with reasons for believing, they were created to perpetuate some kind of fraud (some of them even make sense), the Latin Heart does not fit into that train of thought at all!

If someone is going to try to "fool" someone else into believing in the authenticity of a fake item. They are going to put easily recognizable symbols and instructions on it. Something that they can point to out in the mountains and say... "See there! Right there it is"!

Just like it is shown on the fake item to give it a measure of credibility.

Isn't it an incredible coincidence that the Latin Heart was EXACTLY the same size as the original "Map Heart"?

AND... that when the original "Map Heart" is inserted into the heart cavity in the stone map, it does not fill up the cavity, and there is just enough room left for the Latin heart to fit in there too? More info at: http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... 940#p12940

And... that the Latin Heart was found in the same general area where Tumlinson said he found the stone maps, but by someone else many years later?

And... that some of the words on the Latin Heart are not in any modern Latin Dictionary, but can be found in an "Ancient Latin" Dictionary?

And... that the Roman Numerals on the back do not equate to modern Roman Numerals, but they do to the Roman Numeral system used in the 1700's?

All coincidental? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

All that aside... Suppose someone could tie the Landmarks written (in Latin), on the Latin Heart, to some of the landmarks on the stone maps and stone crosses? I think that "someone" would be inclined to believe, that each stone in the stone map set, attests to the credibility of all the others.

Now... Once a person has concluded in his own mind, that all the above cannot not be written off as just coincidences. Wouldn't you say that person, would be in a pretty good position, start sorting out some of the facts and fiction about the stone maps?

How could anyone that believes the Latin Heart is authentic, and was found not far from where Tumlinson found the stone maps, even begin to accept the story that the Tumlinson stone maps were found buried in the floor of a church in Old Mexico, or that Bilbrey created the stone crosses, as part of a hoax. The story of the Latin Heart was never made public, until 1990, long after the story of Bilbrey's stone crosses had been publicized in the late 1970's. Michael Bilbrey didn't even know the Latin Heart existed when he found the Stone Crosses.

Triangles, Hearts and Crosses. All common denominators found on all the pieces of the stone maps, and all found by different people, at different times, and in different places. But ALL along the same route out of the Superstition Mountains.


All coincidental? Hmmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmmm ;)

Jim Hatt

Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by Jim Hatt » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:39 pm

djui5 wrote:Whoa! Can't wait to hear the interview :shock: :shock:
I just e-mailed the portion (audio clip) about the Latin Heart, from the interview Randy.

Jim

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Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by somehiker » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:57 pm

And if one were to backtrack that trail a ways,would he find a hillside with a heart and an inverse "L"?

And definitely related:

I never suspected that an object so small that it would not fit "my" ring finger could mean so much once researched....and reveal the truth about the timeline of "latin hearts" in the mountains.
Once again,bottom center of the page.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/traderings/

Regards:SH.

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Re: THE LATIN HEART

Post by somehiker » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:59 pm

Jim Hatt wrote:
djui5 wrote:Whoa! Can't wait to hear the interview :shock: :shock:
I just e-mailed the portion (audio clip) about the Latin Heart, from the interview Randy.

Jim
Care to do the same for me,Jim?
Thanks in advance.

Regards:SH.

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