Some of Garman's stuff is really hard to swallow isn't it Ashton?

I think he was prone to believing everything everyone told him, and he put it all in his book.

Obviously Herman could have given him more than just... pointed towards the Robles Hill with Iron Mt. in the background, then he said, “out there, somewhere is the Old Jake mine, now go find it.” if he had wanted to.

Nothing against Bob Garman. It just appears to me that he, and some other authors, may have played up his connection to Herman, to be a lot more than it really was.

Good luck on your next trip!

Best,

Jim

Because Charles Frederick Higham (pen name of John Lindley Higham) has been introduced in this thread as at least being an early source for the Waltz "doodle" (for lack of a better word), I wanted to add something here.

I received a scanned copy of Mr. Higham's unpublished (at least as far as I can tell so far) article/manuscript regarding the Lost Dutchman Mine. This article/manuscript was obtained from Arizona State University Library - Arizona Historical Foundation. The handwritten date 1956 is on the front cover, however it's unknown whether this is the date the document was written by Higham or when it was possibly donated to the ASU Library (which I understand Higham donated much material to).

The scan was a bit blurry in places, had underlined items and also dark "spots" on the text which made it somewhat tedious to read, so I took the liberty of re-typing it using MSWord in a font and style that makes it much easier to follow. I did the best I could at interpreting every word per the original, and I tried to keep the grammar and spelling the same as well. The only thing I'm certain of is that I likely made a few mistakes, but hopefully not many.

I'm going to attach the re-typed version here along with the scanned cover page so you can see the source as well as a scanned copy of a map which appeared in the document (which I obviously did not try to recreate).

If anyone would like copies of the scanned document as I received them, please just e-mail me (paulshimek@comcast.net) and I'll send them out to you asap.

Also - the document brings up a number of questions which I'm not going to address at this point, but will after folks get a chance to read it themselves. Bear with me, as the retyped version is quite long (17pages?)

Enjoy...

Good Morning Paul,

Nice job! Looks like you did a LOT of typing there.
I would have bet that this was an early draft of Higham's book published in 1946, but if you look at the top of page 5, he identifies the year the manuscript was written as 1956, which coincides with the year it was donated to the library.

It will be interesting to compare the 1956 manuscript, to his 1946 book, and see how his opinions/beliefs changed during the 10 years of elapsed time.

Best,

Jim

Something else that's interesting is the use of "Waltz" in the legend for the map (Goldfield Mountains - where Waltz one worked).

Higham seems to be adamant in this manuscript that his real name was Walzer, not Waltz, so in my opinion someone else wrote the legend for that map - perhaps someone else even drew the map?

I find page 15 interesting as well in that it implies that records at least existed that tied Waltz to shipments of ore. As far as I know, any research done to try to locate shipment records have turned up nothing - whether the information is out there somewhere, or whether it's disappeared over time I don't know.

Overall, I think there is plenty of interesting points to discuss in context of this manuscript - whether anything actually leads somewhere useful is a different story.
I agree that it will be interesting to compare the 1946 version with some of the "facts" that Higham outlines here.

With reference to the doodle....

We've pretty much established that that drawing can represent any number of places in the Supes, from any number of vantage points. So the drawing (assuming of course that it was drawn by Jacob W. and his intent in doing so was to communicate the location or approximate location of his mine) by itself is of marginal value.

If authentic, the REAL value would have been in the instructions that Jacob W. was telling Julia and Rhiney AND the drawing TOGETHER. I've been trying to explain something to someone, and they just weren't getting it...So I've drawn maps and such to illustrate what I was saying...Only when they had BOTH what I was saying AND what I was drawing did things "click" for them.

Here's my issue with the validity of this...Jacob most likely knew that both Julia's and Rhiney's experiences in those mountains were basically nil...Further, he knew how foredoding and dangerous the Supes were (are)...He also knew that close attention had to be paid in order for the mine to be found. Sure, Rhiney and/or Julia could have figured that simple instructions could have gotten them there (both because they didn't know the Supes and because they might have figured that whatever one of them missed the other would surely pick up on)...Supposedly, Jacob even admonished Rhiney for not paying attention as he was discussing how to get there...

If we are to take all (or even some of this) as truth, (and we accept the assumption that Jacob's true goal was to divulge the location of his mine), why in the world wouldn't Jacob insist that one (or both) of them write down the instructions as he was telling them? We're already assuming that Jacob drew this drawing while incapacitated in Julia's boarding room...Failing one of them writing directions down, why didn't he? If his true aim was to share his mine with them, it would stand to reason that he would do everything in his power to see that they knew where to go and how to get there...

From everything I can gather, his words were not recorded to any great length...as a result we are left to question either a) his motivations for even talking about the subject b) whether he even drew the drawing at all.

As with most things regarding the LDM, there are not now (nor are there likely to be) any concrete answers.

-Kris

Ok...after reading a bit more I'm a bit confused (and I offer my apologies ahead of time if this line of questioning veers too far from the original topic, but I'll try to tie it in)...

So...Did Jacob give Rhiney and Julia directions to the mine? Or did he simply tell them landmarks for the general area? From what I'm gathering, it appears to be the second, while it is claimed that he gave Holmes directions to the mine while on his deathbed (while being delusional and unaware of who he was talking to)...

I suppose my original issue still stands...Why didn't anyone write the directions down? Or did they? It would seem that if Jacob's true intent was to share the location, then his directions would have been accurate (assuming he was still mentally coherent, which is debatable if he couldn't recognize who he was talking to).

After all, why in the world would he give directions to Holmes after telling Holmes that he would kill him if Holmes attempted to follow him again? That part just doesn't make sense.

Perhaps now I can see why Jacob didn't write down directions, but that still doesn't explain why no one else did (or I'm not aware that they did). Regardless, I'm not sure where this drawing come into play...(or even if it was Jacob that drew it to begin with). In my opinion, without supporting evidence that drawing is simply a bad sketch of an area of the Supes, and no useful info can really come of it.

-Kris

Kris,

You said it best in the last line of your first post above...



Let us not forget about things like King Tut's Tomb, and the wreck of the Atocha, for which there were no concrete answers either, and both had been lost a lot longer than the LDM has.

Yet... They were both found and their treasures were recovered.

All we can do is work with what information we do have, which is already being discussed (in detail) in a number of different topics in these forums.

This topic is for discussing Waltz's "Doodles" only, and hasn't really gotten off the ground yet.

Please do not derail it into too many different directions before it does.

Best,

Jim

Someone I know reminded me of the following information concerning the "doodles."



I don't know if anyone here has ever seen the "Edwards Notes" either, but if so, perhaps someone can confirm the account?