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 Post subject: Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:02 pm 
Back around 1993 when I was working at the Palo Verde Nuclear plant. The manager (Ralph Ochoa) of the department I was working in (Engineering and Technical Support) would often come around at lunch time just to hang out eat his lunch with us. He knew that two of us were treasure hunters, (as was he) and that was usually the subject of our lunchtime discussions. One day I had a copy of the Ortiz Map that I had copied from Helen Corbin's Book CURSE OF THE DUTCHMAN'S GOLD sitting on my desk and it caught his attention.

Helen Corbin's Map and Letter
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Image

He picked it up and studied it briefly and then said. "You know this is not the original map don't you"?

I told him that I did not know that, and asked if he had a copy of the original map?

He said he was pretty sure he had a photograph of it, and would look for it when he got home that evening. The very next day he came in at lunch time with the photo and allowed me to make a xerox copy of it.

The Barrigan Map
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I asked him if he knew the history of the map and he told me the following: The last he knew his Aunt (Genevieve Barrigan - 92 years old at the time) still had the original, but he hadn't talked to her in a long time. He said she was still alive and living in Whitter, Calif. and that she could tell me the story behind it much better that he could and handed me her phone number.

I called her as soon as I got home that evening and we talked for about 30 minutes. From her I learned that she and he husband had run a General Store in the Globe/Miami area (I forget the time frame) and that prospectors were always trying to get her husband to grubstake them for another trip into the mountains looking for one old lost mine or another.

One day a prospector (Named Gonzales) came in with this map and offered to let Mr. Barrigan make a copy of it for a grubstake. Mr. Barrigan agreed under the condition that the Prospector make a copy of it for himself, and gave the original to Mr. Barrigan. It took a while but the Prospector finally agreed and the deal was made. Unlike the original map where the map and text appear on the same page. When the Prospector made his copy, he drew the map and text on separate pages. (As it is shown in Helen Corbin's book)

Mr. Barrigan never saw the Prospector again. I asked Mrs. Barrigan if she still had the map? She said no, that she had given it to her son (who is a Dentist) after Mr. Barrigan died, and the last she knew he had it framed, and hanging on the wall of his waiting room in his Dentist's office.

I was just about to ask her for her son's contact information, when she announced that she had to go, because her daughter was there to take her out to dinner.

I let it sit for a few days... The next thing I knew Ralph Ochoa came up to me and asked if I had had a chance to talk to his Aunt Genevieve? I told him that I did, and he said good, because she had passed away unexpectedly the night before.

I was so shocked that I didn't even think to ask Ralph if he knew her son that was a Dentist and had any contact information for him.

It was about this period of time when I got seriously interested in the Stone Maps, and the Ortiz Map slipped away to the bottom of my priorities.

I believe the original map is probably still hanging on the wall of Mrs. Barrigan's son's waiting room somewhere in southern Calif. (assuming he is still practicing Dentistry).

It might be possible that some of the guys who spend a lot of time on Ancestry.com, could connect some of the dots that will lead to the right Dentist's office.

The only thing I could come up with in the text part of the maps that led me to believe that one was a copy of the other, is near the bottom where one says "35 - 40" and the other says "35 to 40". Maybe someone can take this farther than I did and come up with a better copy of the Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map.

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Corbin version

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Barrigan version

Best,

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:00 am
Posts: 661
Wow Jim - well, that's certainly an interesting and possibly exciting new twist on an old story!

I may have to add this to my list of things to look into :)


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 Post subject: Re: Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:37 pm
Posts: 368
Location: Sunny Portland, Oregon
One thing that has always intrigued me are the dots alongside a portion of the trail. Obviously, they are of some importance or they wouldn’t be on the map. If they represent monuments, we can be pretty sure that they are history by now.

Also interesting are the substantial discrepancies between this copy of the map and the one in the Golden Dream (Glover pg 328) – I can see why his source wants to remain confidential. While I respect the time and effort Glover put into his book, and I am in no way dissing Dr. Glover - it would appear that at least some of his sources took advantage of the situation and told him what I would call misinformation.

Best,
Ashton


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 Post subject: Re: Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:22 pm
Posts: 200
Location: Arizona
Hello,

Just to put out a different opinion about the "Dots", here are a couple more ideas.

1) They could have been added at a later date by someone. (I have found this to be true with a very popular map involved in the Dutchman Lore. Somone, somewhere added one little thing to this "popular" map, making it impossible to decipher, unless you leave it out. I do not know if they did it on purpose, or just made an assumption. My personal belief is that it was an assumption, based on the history of the map)

2) I have read there could be 8 mines. There are 8 "dots" on the Ortiz Map.

3) They could be "markers" like Ashton said, and they are most likely gone. (I do not believe they are markers simply because I havent read anything about markers, except from the "Deering/Chunning" version. Yes, there is a reference to a "Monumented Trail", but i personally believe this is well before you get to the actual mine location. The Ortiz Map looks more like a reference to a more "Centralized" location, in my opinion anyway.

4) They are simply marking a "trail" or "Path". This is what I believe they are. If you look at other Mexican Maps, the "Caminos", or "Paths" are "Dotted" or "Dashed" lines. The Canyons are usually marked by solid lines.
Now the question to ask is......Do you START, or END at the "Arrow"??

Side note: Does anyone else see a "Face" on the left side of the Second Map Jim posted that is "looking" at the Arrow?

Thanks,
Travis


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 Post subject: Re: Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:00 am
Posts: 661
I find the variations of the orientation of the Ortiz map to be interesting as well.

The one Jim posted is clearly oriented in a different direction from that of the Corbin book, and while it's the same orientation as that in Glover's book, the one in Glover's is definitely not a tracing of either of the other ones but rather more like an individual drawing to try to copy it.

Jim's copy implies it's in the correct orientation if you assume the writing done on it is written with the map oriented upright.

I do see a face of sorts looking at the arrow, but it looks more like a camel or a sphinx-like profile than it does a person. It could also just be a case of seeing elephants in the clouds - I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:22 pm
Posts: 200
Location: Arizona
Paul,

There is one thing that should be kept in mind when comparing the two maps. In Corbins Bible, Bobs version of the map was "Doctored" by Arnold Ortiz, after Bob received it. Arnold said some lines were "missing" and "lightly penciled them in".

It looks to me like Bob Corbins version has more "lines" drawn on it, but the Barrigan version has more Landmarks around it.

Which one is the original? Is either one the original? I personally don't think either of them is the original, they are both just copies. But that's just a personal opinion.

thanks,
Travis


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 Post subject: Re: Barrigan version of the Ortiz Map
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:37 pm
Posts: 368
Location: Sunny Portland, Oregon
I also see a profile of a face looking at the arrow in both versions and I do not believe I'm seeing elephants in the clouds. If this is the same rock-face Conatser referred to then it would be looking at the entrance. Assuming that is the case -> that places the arrow at the end of the rainbow. BIG assumption, but interesting nonetheless.

Ashton


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