the original route of the Apache trail

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roward
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the original route of the Apache trail

Post by roward »

Does anyone know how the current route differs from the one in use in the era of the 1860's to 1890's? Specifically, in the Two Soldiers Story as told by Ely, he says they took the trail until it appeared to turn directly north, and they knew they wanted to go south, so that's when they left the trail and struck out across the mountains. Anyone have a guess as to approximately where that might have been?
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Re: the original route of the Apache trail

Post by AshtonPage »

Hi Roward,

This might not be the answer you’re looking for, but since you mentioned the Two Soldiers story as told by Sims Ely, here’s some food for thought. Keep in mind that I could be wrong about all this.
I don't think that (according Sims) the two soldiers actually took the Apache trail and then cut south where Apache trail turns north. It’s my opinion that is another (embellished?) version of the story.

Following Sims:
"And since they knew where they wanted to go, they had decided against taking the circuitous Apache Trail....... But as it had turned out, they were sorry...... that they'd come by the more direct route (AP note - entering the Supers from the North). They had been compelled to come through country that was so terribly rough that they had feared at times they would have to turn back."
(Sins pg 54)

To me this says they decided they weren't going to take the Apache Trail. Sims versions says nothing about them leaving the Apache trail and\or getting stuck at a waterfall and\or having to backtrack.

I think the story about the two soldiers turning south where the trail turns north is an embellishment and if you follow it will probably find yourself spending a lot of time around Windy Pass looking for clues that aren't there. And that's just my opinion based on my own experience, another experience that lead me to follow Sims to the exclusion of others (except for Conatser’s description of the immediate area).

If you follow Sims – It’s my opinion that the two soldiers remarked their return trip would be from the south. Read the following in context and see if that’s what you come up with:

"Moreover, on their way out, they had struck a trail which led them through a little gap in the range not far from the peak, and this trail was very old, leading them into a valley perhaps two miles wide. This valley ran easterly and westerly, and they had followed the easterly portion until they crossed some canyons—still in the direction in which they knew they must go—and passed a horse ranch where there were corrals. From that ranch there was a trail into Pinal.
They could go back to the old mine, all right."
Sims (pg 56)

Notice they did NOT say 'we can go back to Apache trail and then cut south at Fish Creek'. If you read their description, they came out by Miner's Needle and that's where I believe they intended to go back in at. If I was trying to follow the two soldiers, that’s where I would start.

Best of luck to you,

Ashton
Jim Hatt

Re: the original route of the Apache trail

Post by Jim Hatt »

Nice reply Ashton!

If Bob ever gets a chance to spend some serious time out in the mtns.
I think it would change the way he looks at a lot of things.

Best,

Jim
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Re: the original route of the Apache trail

Post by roward »

You're right, Jim-it's on my to-do list!
Bob
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Re: the original route of the Apache trail

Post by roward »

Ashton,
Sorry, I was confusing Ely with the Bark notes. Bark is the one who gives the more detailed story about the Apache Trail and crossing a creek with running water , the waterfall, etc. And since the Bark notes are suspect, I guess we can take that with a grain of salt. Anyway, I certainly agree with you about their return journey to the mine from Pinal-they would follow the trail they had come out on. Otherwise, they'd have to skirt the mountains and come in again from the north, which would make no sense. Regarding the horse ranch with corrals they passed when coming out of the mountains, would that be the Bark ranch (or the Caveness ranch at that time, I guess)?
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Re: the original route of the Apache trail

Post by AshtonPage »

Hi Roward,

According to Sims -> (after coming down [south] what I believe to be Miner’s Canyon) “….into a valley perhaps two miles wide. This valley ran easterly and westerly, and they had followed the easterly portion until they crossed some canyons – still in the direction in which they knew they must go – and passed a horse ranch where there were corrals. From that ranch there was a trail into Pinal.” (pg 56)

The Quarter Circle U Ranch is (and I assume was in 1880) at the south of Barks Valley and I think they headed east. That’s just what I think. Others might think differently.

My guess is that they went past the Whitlow corral and Reeds Water and then up Fraser Canyon past the JF (Jack Fraser) Ranch. I don’t know if there were corrals in 1880 at the JF Ranch. I believe the JF Ranch was started in the 1890’s – so that’s a decade off. But like I said, there may have been corrals there before the official ranch was there – that’s just a surmising. I don’t know when the Whitlow ranch was started - other than the story of stagecoach driver Fred Mullins telling about dropping off a man named Waggoner on the south side of the Superstitions near the Whitlow Ranch in 1894. See Hiker’s Guide pages 103-4. If you’re interested in that one – but that’s another story.

Specifically where the two soldiers went after they exited the Superstitions is kind of an academic question, therefore I haven’t studied it in depth. Just a cursory scan over contemporary TOPO maps tells me the above could be one possible route.

The real problem I have with the Two Soldiers story is that there was a wagonload (“you could fill a wagon bed with it” (Sims 55) of rich gold ore just lying there “right there in plain sight” (Sims 57), waiting to be picked up. The manager of the Silver King (Aaron Mason) whom the two solders told that story to did not believe that was the case.

Hope this helps,
Ashton
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Re: the original route of the Apache trail

Post by AshtonPage »

Hi Roward,

Now you’ve got me thinking about the two soldiers story. Here’s some things to consider from Sims version. The two soldiers make no mention of a pit. :shock: Sims page 55; “They knew it was a mine from the dump that was there, and from a tunnel.” Hmmm – no mention of a pit mine by the two soldiers. At least nowhere in Sims that I can find.

I don’t think the two soldiers were quite as naive as they let on because they did grab a sack of the ore and not just a couple of pieces (see Sims pg 55). They obviously thought the ore contained some value or they wouldn’t have grabbed a sack of it and packed it out of the mountains – on foot, no less. One trip through the Superstitions and you’ll appreciate why I say that. :) What I’m getting at is I think it is likely that since they believed the ore had value that they would have ‘checked the place out’ before they left the mine. It stands to reason that if they had stumbled upon the LDM they would have seen the pit mine as Deering claims to have done.

Another curious part is Sims says “Moreover, on their way out, they had struck a trail….this trail was very old.” (Sims 56) Now Sims reports that they had ‘struck’ a trail and it was ‘on their way out’ that they struck the trail. That leads me to believe that there is NO trail to that mine – contrasting that with Deerings version where he “reasoned there’d be a trail leading up to and from the mine and I’d find that and follow it up. All there was to it.” (Sims 76) If I am reading Sims correctly, Deering found a trail that lead to the mine whereas the two soldiers mine had no visible trail – otherwise they would have followed it.

I dunno – maybe I'm just rambling. Let me know what you think.

Best,
Ashton
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