I agree that a lot of the authors on this forum have very little practicle "in the field" experience in regards to the Superstition Wilderness as well as it's legends. Jim Hatt was no doubt a precious and rare resource to people like us. All the books written about the Dutchman were written by men that failed to find it anyway, so we aren't missing much from them. Call us young bucks "new age" if you want, but the fact of the matter is that very few people like Silent Hunter, the Dirty Dutchman and a few more are the ones that put thier life in thier pack and actually walk Waltz's foot steps. You have to get out of your house, live out there, sleep out there, Feel the heat, Feel the fear, Come close to death, and then you have to keep going back again and again.... There just aren't as many men like that left I'm afraid.....




Double-Jack

[quote="badger"]I agree that a lot of the authors on this forum have very little practicle "in the field" experience in regards to the Superstition Wilderness as well as it's legends. Jim Hatt was no doubt a precious and rare resource to people like us. All the books written about the Dutchman were written by men that failed to find it anyway, so we aren't missing much from them. Call us young bucks "new age" if you want, but the fact of the matter is that very few people like Silent Hunter, the Dirty Dutchman and a few more are the ones that put thier life in thier pack and actually walk Waltz's foot steps. You have to get out of your house, live out there, sleep out there, Feel the heat, Feal the fear, Come close to death, and then you have to keep going back again and again.... There just aren't as many men like that left I'm afraid.....




Double-Jack[/


Nicely said could'nt agree more

babymick1

Hi Ashton & All

On the Weiser question

I’m reading Blair and he was implying that Thomas Weedin
came up with Weiser character,
(truth of fiction is unknown)
and told Ely that story around 1911.

Now whether Waltz did or didn’t have partner is uncertain
But he may have never mentioned a specific partner to Julia.



Do you have a source that that makes you believe
that Waltz told Julia about a Weiser ?

I don’t want to bug you with purely speculative thought
that doesn’t lead to anything conclusive
Besides I’m greenhorn that never searched
for the Lost Dutchman in the Supers.
Heck I’m not even convinced its in Supers

But verifiable history is every bit as important as the actual search
IMHO

g’day
ED

Hi Ed,

Thomas Glover researched "Jacob Weiser" and found no records anywhere. No land deeds, no newspaper articles, no census reports, no marriage certificates, no mining claims, no voter registration - Nada, Zip, Zilch.

Dr. Glover is convinced that there never was a Weiser and I agree with him.

The "Weedin Map" is a bit of a puzzler because it shows 'three peaks' due west of the mine.... as Reiney describes in Barks Notes. Maybe just coincidence?

Best,
Ashton

Hi Ed,

Oops – I misunderstood your question. According to Sims Ely’s book, Waltz told Julia and Reiney that he had a partner named Jacob Weiser. Additionally, Sims devotes almost an entire chapter [4] in his book to Jacob Weiser and how his map was passed to Dr Walker and then Tom Weedin – this is the Walker-Weedin map.

In his book, Sims claims [pg 49] that he never got the Weiser map because Mrs. Weedin destroyed it to prevent her husband from going into the Superstitions. I feel that Sims is being less than honest with his readers at this point.
Cross-reference Glover ->“Ely and Barks contention that Weedin’s wife destroyed the map was a misdirection by them.” The Golden Dream [pg 312]

According to Sims book – Weiser tells Dr. Walker that he and his partner (that would be Jacob Waltz) were soldiers in the Confederate Army [pg 42]. To me, that's something that just doesn't line up - but then, nothing really does if you look deep enough.

Best,
Ashton

Excellent Ashton!

Does Ely specifically say that Waltz mentioned Weiser to Julia?

I’ve never read Ely book. It can’t be check out of the library-reference only.
And most used copies are to expensive for this rock bottom boy.
But I am going to have to accomplish it somehow
if I want to be a professional amateur LDM historian.

As an interesting side note though--
Blair mentions that Weedin in January 2, 1885 (p. 55)
filed a location claim with one C.B. Weiser in Florence. This
would be the Ivanhoe [sic] or later the Carliss mine.

There is also another interesting mention in Blair book of a
J.C Weiss concerning the Gross Lode in Prescott
circa 1863. With all the misspelling of names
its hard to become any wiser.
well you can draw your own conclusions
roc

Hi Roc,

Chapter 8 of Sims book is where Waltz tells Julia about his partner:
Waltz talking to Julia and Reiney: “My partner’s first name was Jacob, same as mine. His last name was Weiser.” [Sims pg 99]

I’m no expert but I’ve come to the conclusion that almost every version contains a grain of truth and a fair amount of fluff, mixed in with local legend (read fantasy). The real issue is, as it has always been, to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Clay Worst speculates that it will take (as of yet to be invented) electronic surveillance \ prospecting equipment to locate the mine and Conatser believes that it will require someone (no doubt some bungling newbie, not looking where they are walking) literally falling into the mine – in order to actually locate the LDM. I am inclined to agree with them.

Best,
Ashton

So there is hope for me

Ashton,

Clay, and Conatser are contradicting each other, how can you agree with both?

In my opinion they are both wrong. I believe that all one has to do is follow directions. There are enough clues to find it without any map.

Homar

Homar....BINGO.........Dont forget to add the Earth Quake to all those clues....HAHAHA





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