Damage to Clues or Markers

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treasures2much
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Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by treasures2much » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:45 am

Hi All
I hope I have looked thoroughly enough through all the post and am not asking a question that has already been answered.
I remember reading albeit years ago. A couple of things I have wanted others opinions on…
QUESTION:
1. Does anyone have estimation on how much damage if any ”Tex” Barkley did to clues or markers he found?
I remember reading somewhere that he and a cowhand found and moved Ruth’s body, and I believe I read he turned metates over also so they just looked like rocks.
2. How much other damage has occurred do to people thinking what they saw was clue and they were inches away from the mine
Granted there probably is no definitive or accurate answer just looking for ideas and examples or opinions
Thanks
Treasures2much

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cubfan64
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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by cubfan64 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:42 pm

There are lots of stories and rumors about people both adding and destroying things in the Superstitions over the last 121 years since Waltz passed away, in fact I'm sure there are a few folks who attend the Rendezvous each year who are guilty of one or the other. It's impossible to know the answer to your question.

Some say Barry Storm and Bill Barkley added things to the Superstitions while some say Tex Barkley and other ranchers destroyed things. It's impossible to know how much has been done.

I think taking human nature into account one can easily assume there has been a great deal of "damage" overall done out there in all these years. Up until mineral claims were no longer granted, there were people who blasted away a number of areas of the mountains. You also have natural weathering in addition to the earthquake in the late 1800's (I think that's when it was?).

When you see how much damage is regularly done to Native American Pictographs just for "the fun of it," how much more likely is it to think that someone might destroy what they consider to be a marker if they believe it could lead to vast sums of wealth? Now add on the number of people who have searched out there and 121 years and a rational conclusion to make is that EVERYTHING you find out there that appears to be a marker or sign is "questionable" at best.

Just my $0.02

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by somehiker » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:01 pm

Treasures2much:

Welcome to DUSA.

While I do believe in some of the claims about man-made markers or "monuments" such as cairns being destroyed by Dutch searchers/prospectors and cattlemen...even maybe forestry workers who sought to limit the traffic in certain areas... I also have difficulty in understanding why anyone with a valuable mine or cache of "treasure" would construct a set of such "signposts" which could lead any observant passer-by directly to their valuables.
It seems more likely to me that most, if not all, of these probably marked routes to water or temporary food caches like this for example.

Marker spotted high on ridgeline from below.

Image

Looked for a cache...spotted lower and to the right.

Image

Opened each of the cans...rice in one and beans in the other two.

Image

When I described this find to Tom Kollenborn, he said the Apache likely made the cache.
A couple of other old hands thought the same, based on my description of the contents.

Regards:SH.

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by coazon de oro » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:11 pm

Howdy Treasures2much,

Welcome to DUSA, and to the forum of the Lost & Found Dutchman Mine. :?

It is my belief that the only clues or markers which may not have survived the time, are the frying pan, and the tree with the cut branch.

Unless the frying pan was porcelain coated, I can't see how it could last 120 years exposed to weather. The three peaks should still be there though.

The tree may also be gone if it was already an old tree at the time. This tree I believe, was one of the markers on the PSM's. Waltz said that the Mexicans used to place stones on the forks of trees to form a marker, and that some of these stones were wedged in pretty good due to time, that they had to be chopped out.

With these two markers gone, I believe you can still locate the mine.

Homar P. Olivarez

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by silent hunter » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:24 am

Some Hiker Wrote; When I described this find to Tom Kollenborn, he said the Apache likely made the cache.
A couple of other old hands thought the same, based on my description of the contents......

Some Hiker, you must have been talking about modern Indians?? There where no plastic bags untill the late 60's and then not widely used untill the 80's...

Kurt Painter

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by somehiker » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:14 pm

Kurt:

Yes, the cans and coffee jar in the photos I'd judge to be less than twenty years old.
Based mostly on the amount of rust on the paint cans, and the fact the thinner lid of the jar was rusted through.
The one gallon cans had been never used for paint and the plastic in the can of rice had not deteriorated at all. The two cans containing dried beans of two or three kinds had leaked and they were mouldy. There were some other cans however, which were much older and had almost rusted away entirely. I couldn't even tell what they originally were.
Enough rocks had been piled in front of the cache to make it almost invisible.
I believe Tom meant modern Apache.

Regards:Wayne

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by Hooch » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:25 am

somehiker wrote:Treasures2much:

When I described this find to Tom Kollenborn, he said the Apache likely made the cache.

Regards:SH.
Right after they painted their boat?

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by somehiker » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:19 am

Hooch wrote:
somehiker wrote:Treasures2much:

When I described this find to Tom Kollenborn, he said the Apache likely made the cache.

Regards:SH.
Right after they painted their boat?
Hooch:
Didn't see any boats around. Then again, I didn't really expect I would..... :roll:

Regards:Somehiker

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by Rex Western » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:33 am

It is possible that there is a Native American burial ground near by. It is still to this day customary for ancestors to leave food and water for the spirts that are believed to stand guard. I would personally tread lightly.

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Re: Damage to Clues or Markers

Post by silent hunter » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:13 pm

Hey Rex good to see you post on here Jim Hatt talked about you alot....


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Kurt Painter

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