Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Moderator: Jim_b

User avatar
Matthew Roberts
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:11 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by Matthew Roberts » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:11 am

Ashton,

Every author is responsible for their own work and what appears within the pages of their books, Period. There are no exceptions. Authors employ editors to proof read and ensure there are no errors. Ample credits, sources and annotations are provided in the books.

For someone to imply an author is NOT responsible for their own work is either implying the author has a co-author or is completely incompetant to undertake the task of writing their own book. Unless a book lists a co-author it can be relied upon there wasn't one.

ALL Lost Dutchman Mine books are FICTION , western folklore with occasional incidental historical facts surrounding the folklore legend. Long on legend and short on incidental facts. Dutchman authors who masqurade their books as Non-Fiction Historical Documentaries are using bait-and-switch, deceiving the buying public and creating false impressions in the minds of gullible people who swallow the bait and are deluded into thinking the LDM is a True Historical Documentary.

Unicorns are a folklore legend, but just because the legend occurs in a place like Ireland, and seen by real people that can be linked with historical facts, DOES NOT MAKE UNICORN BOOKS NON-FICTION HISTORICAL DOCUMENTARIES.

There are dozens of LDM books that have been written. There are hundreds and hundreds of associated LDM accounts, stories, articles, letters that have never been published into a book and rest waiting for some author to pick them up and use them. To assume everything that has ever appeared in every medium concerning the LDM has already appeared in one of the published LDM books is ridiculous. Authors and ordinary people do find new associated pieces of related material occasionally.

I believe many things about the LDM legend, and there are many things I take along with it as pure folklore and legend. If I were to write a LDM book myself, I would surely be 100% responsible for whatever appeared in it and not try to pass it off as a NON-FICTION Documentary or someone elses work.

Others are entitled to their opinion, and are entitled to their delusions about the LDM being a TRUE HISTORICAL DOCUMENTARY. But that doesn't make it so, it is still just their personal opinion .

Matthew

Ozarker
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:26 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by Ozarker » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:47 am

Hello All:

Apologies for the quality of the Waltz obituary scans.

Here are the only other copies and transcripts that I have handy.


This is the obituary in question as it appeared on page 31 of Helen Corbin's first book (The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold, 1990):

Image


Here is the same obituary as it appeared on page 141 of Helen's second book (The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz, 2002):

Image


And here is a scan of page 16 out of "Early Newspaper Articles of The Superstition Mountains and The Lost Dutchman Gold Mine", compiled by Greg Davis for the Superstition Mountain Historical Society in 1992:

Image


A transcript of the Phoenix Daily Herald obituary for Waltz also appears in Robert Blair's book (Tales of the Superstitions, 1975) on page 73; and in Robert Sikorsky's book (Quest for the Dutchman's Gold, 1996) on pages 29-30.

I'm sure there are others, but I don't have much time to look today. It would be nice to see the original newspaper at the archives and get a quality photo of the page.

Larry

User avatar
roc2rol
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:58 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Dutch's Ditch, AZ

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by roc2rol » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:23 pm

Thanks for posting those Larry

It would be pretty wild to suppose that all those esteemed authors just passed on the information as presented and that none of them verified the original source. It kind of puts me on a quest. For some reason that last line bothers me.

But lets speculate for a moment. Suppose the original newspaper clipping is different and that last line is not there. How could we back- track the source to find out how the original got altered?

Just wild speculation on my part and most likely I’ll never get the chance to do the research.

Thanks again
Ed

User avatar
AshtonPage
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:37 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Sunny Portland, Oregon

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by AshtonPage » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:27 am

Ozarker and Matthew,

Thanks for your explanations – as in “thanks, I needed that” :D Things actually make a bit more sense now.

Roc,
That last line in the obituary does look penciled in. The letter ‘e’ (3 times) in particular does not match the type font. While that doesn’t mean it’s not in the original, it’s interesting to note.

All,
I see that the old saying “where you stand depends upon where you sit” is still applicable.

Thanks Again,
Ashton

User avatar
roc2rol
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:58 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Dutch's Ditch, AZ

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by roc2rol » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:03 am

Thanks Ashton

I’m assuming that the obituary is a faithful copy
and all the words are just as they appear.
A search as indicated that archived copies
of the Phoenix Herald exist on microfiche
and are available at Burton Barr Library (Phoenix)
Perhaps I’ll get a chance this weekend to do some searching.

Anyway it’s a very curious obit. If the original is as stated
It lends a lot of credence that a serious lost treasure
was relayed to Julia and Co.
Nothing new in that revelation but it does add a certain validity


If its been altered --it open it open whole nother can of worms.

Happy Searching
Roc

Ozarker
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:26 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by Ozarker » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:12 pm

Folks:

It looks like I caused some consternation about the Waltz obituary (Phoenix Daily Herald, 26 October 1891). That was unintentional, but it is totally my fault.

I should have been more clear about the source of the scan I posted (I simply noted the newspaper and page/column where it originally appeared in October 1891, and did not bother to specify where I got it from).

The scan, which does indeed have the letters of the last line filled in with pen, did not come from the Library of Congress or from the original newspaper or any state or library archives.

It is actually a scan of the copy from page 82 of Amy Mosier's book (Treasure Maps of the Superstitions, 2006). I used it because it was at hand, and in fact because it was the easiest to see and read out of all the copies I looked at.

The pen-and-ink enhancement in Amy's copy did not change the wording from the original obituary.

I suspect that is probably Amy's handwriting, or somebody else had done it for her, and she was simply trying to make things easier for her readers.

The pen-and-ink enhancement does not appear in either of Corbin's books.

My apologies to Amy for not giving her due credit for the copy, and to all of you for the unintended confusion.

Larry

User avatar
roc2rol
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:58 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Dutch's Ditch, AZ

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by roc2rol » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:39 am

Thanks for the clarification, Larry
I really didn’t mean to side track your thoughts or research
Waltz’s obit is an ongoing obsession of mine
If I could get my thinking clear & distinct
(As opposed to just speculation)
Concerning this issue
I will start a thread on it
Or build on my old thread
Of Julia’s possible self-promotion of the LDM
Thanks again
Roc

Gregory E. Davis
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:21 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by Gregory E. Davis » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:10 am

Good afternoon Mrs. Oroblanco: You posted on October 6, 2013, at 9:25 P.M. a reference to a newspaper ad pertaining to "Thomas' Ice Cream" at "Thomas' Drug Store". You dated the ad as 1921 however you did not give the month and day of the ad. Would you kindly post the month and day that the ad appeared in the Arizona Republic. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

User avatar
Mrs.Oroblanco
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:40 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Emil and Julia Thomas Bakery

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:54 am

Greg,

How are you?

I didn't realize I had written 1921 (my typing is getting worse) It was from a newspaper ad from 1901, not 1921.

I tried to post the newspaper, but, in order to get it on the forum, it was so small, you couldn't read it.

Mrs.O

Post Reply