The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by somehiker » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:22 am

nobody wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:33 am
Somehiker,
Like I said on the other forum, I'm not very good at these discussions. What's in my mind doesn't come out on my posts properly. You and others say it better than I can. I now have my doubts about a real Jesuit getting involved unless he's from the mail room. I hope the show doesn't turn out to be like the Legends of the Superstition Mountains. Fake black hand or fake gold crosses.
nobody:
Sometimes the simple truth can be far too bland for television, and what Travis had to say in the final paragraphs of his book wasn't the kind of ending to his part in the "legend" required to generate the viewer numbers necessary to sell even a single episode, and a clear non-starter for a "series" of any duration. His admission that he had failed to find the "Spanish Treasure" he had been searching for, would soon have viewers changing channels to watch re-runs of Mayberry R.F.D. instead.
So what's a guy to do ?

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by babymick1 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:12 am

Barney fiep or Ray-on Fiep

Is there a difference

Babymick1

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by deducer » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:01 am

Matthew Roberts wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:50 am
cactusjumper, somehiker, nobody,

Anyone who thinks contacting the Jesuit order and getting someone to discuss the subject of Jesuit treasure is easy, they have an eye opening experience ahead of them.

My only objective in contacting the Jesuits was in relation to the Clarence Mitchell article I was writing. Once I finally got a reply I never mentioned RMG or anything he might be doing. The only mention of the Tumlinson's I ever made was when I said Clarence Mitchell received his Stone Maps from a man named Travis Tumlinson. That was it. The conversation from that point focused on Mitchell and the Stone Maps themselves and if there was any possibility they might be Jesuit inspired. I never mentioned anyone else and they never mentioned anyone else to me.

Not knowing where to start, my first contact was with the office of the Superior General at the Curia Generalizia at, 00193 Roma, Italia. Telephone +39-06-689-771. They simply directed me to the office of the Provincial Superior of the Jesuit Conference of Canada and the United States, (the California office at Los Gatos, California). The Telephone is (408) 884-1600 and the Provincial Superior is Fr. Michael Weiler. This office also directed the History Center at Tucson.

Today, as of July 1, 2017, The newly formed office of Jesuits West at Portland, Oregon has consolidated 10 Western States in it's administration. Arizona and California are now under the direction of Jesuits West.

What I learned is the Jesuit order knows their own history very well. They are no grey areas to their history in the American Southwest. Their focus is not on mines or treasure or stories of Jesuit maps and mining. Jesuits serve as teachers, campus ministers, and administrators at universities, high schools, and Nativity middle schools. They also serve as parish ministers, chaplains, and spiritual directors. In all Jesuit ministries and work, they strive to keep alive the tradition and prayerful discernment established by St. Ignatius and do all things for the greater glory of God.

That is it, that is what Jesuits do, are focused on and what they give all their energy toward. Jesuit treasure stories are not what they do or care to be involved in.

The Jesuit order is however always happy to talk with interested persons and openly and honestly answer any questions concerning the orders goals or history. They do not endorse, sponsor or involve themselves with treasure hunting or historical possibilities. It's just not what they do.

Matthew
Matthew,

Thank you for filling in the missing pieces and for reposting what Ryan wrongfully censored. As has been said here, I hope his moderator status has been revoked as a result of his blatant oppression of free speech.

What you said is in line with my experience with the Jesuits when I visited them at the St. Francis Xavier Parish in Phoenix, a few years ago to investigate what at the time was thought to be a statue of Rojas out front. I found the "treasure door" to be firmly shut. They didn't want to discuss anything treasure-related, at all, and it does make sense that they want to distance themselves as far as possible from what they did as an organization before being shut down and completely reinventing themselves upon being restored in 1814. Their mission now is nothing like it was when the organization was first founded. They are no longer "soldiers of Christ." I would imagine that they are pretty sincere in avoiding the image of being associated with treasure, as far as publicity goes.

I think I'm going to see if I can verify Ryan's claims of being "backed by the Church" as shown in the screen capture of his post, on the previous page. Do you think you could reach out to Jesuits West and see if they have even heard of him/know of his project?

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Matthew Roberts » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:26 am

deducer wrote the following: ............Matthew,

Thank you for filling in the missing pieces and for reposting what Ryan wrongfully censored. As has been said here, I hope his moderator status has been revoked as a result of his blatant oppression of free speech.

What you said is in line with my experience with the Jesuits when I visited them at the St. Francis Xavier Parish in Phoenix, a few years ago to investigate what at the time was thought to be a statue of Rojas out front. I found the "treasure door" to be firmly shut. They didn't want to discuss anything treasure-related, at all, and it does make sense that they want to distance themselves as far as possible from what they did as an organization before being shut down and completely reinventing themselves upon being restored in 1814. Their mission now is nothing like it was when the organization was first founded. They are no longer "soldiers of Christ." I would imagine that they are pretty sincere in avoiding the image of being associated with treasure, as far as publicity goes.

I think I'm going to see if I can verify Ryan's claims of being "backed by the Church" as shown in the screen capture of his post, on the previous page. Do you think you could reach out to Jesuits West and see if they have even heard of him/know of his project?


Hello deducer,

I want to be clear that my only reason for contacting the Jesuit order was in the context of writing the article for the SMHS Journal about Clarence Mitchell and the Stone Maps. Mitchell believed there to be a Jesuit connection to the maps and treasure. My only question to the Jesuits was if this might be a possibility. I only mentioned Travis Tumlinson once and that was in the context that Mitchell received the Stone Maps from Tumlinson.

I never mentioned RMG and they never mentioned him to me. That was not the focus or goal of my researching.

I would not be inclined to get involved in anything RMG might or might not be involved in. First of all it's not my business and even though he has attacked and slandered me for no good reason, any differences with him I might have I will work out face to face with him. I don't use the internet to attack someone or spread slanderous posts about them or try to sway other people to look down on someone else. That is cowardly and not what a man does.

It is not hard to get someone in the Jesuit order to talk with you if you present yourself with respect and intelligence. It is however hard to get anyone in the order to endorse you or sponsor you with theories or evidence of treasure or mines of gold and silver. In my experience the Jesuit order does not believe there was any connection whatsoever to Stone Maps or buried treasue or mines. That is their position and they are sticking with it.

But I can only speak for what my experience was. I cannot speak for someone else and I believe how you present yourself to the Jesuit order goes a long way in how they will interact with you. My stance is I will wait and see what RMG brings forward. I'm sure whatever it is will be entertaining and well produced. I think his work will stand or fall on it's own merits and I wish him well.

Best as always deducer,

Matthew

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by cw0909 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:45 pm

Matthew Roberts, will the journal & or article be published somewhere i can read it
thanks

Matthew Roberts
I wrote an article for the Superstition Mountain Historical Society 2017 Journal about Clarence Mitchell and his involvement with the Stone Maps. That 2017 Journal will be out sometime in October or November this fall.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by deducer » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:45 pm

Matthew Roberts wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:26 am

Hello deducer,

I want to be clear that my only reason for contacting the Jesuit order was in the context of writing the article for the SMHS Journal about Clarence Mitchell and the Stone Maps. Mitchell believed there to be a Jesuit connection to the maps and treasure. My only question to the Jesuits was if this might be a possibility. I only mentioned Travis Tumlinson once and that was in the context that Mitchell received the Stone Maps from Tumlinson.

I never mentioned RMG and they never mentioned him to me. That was not the focus or goal of my researching.

I would not be inclined to get involved in anything RMG might or might not be involved in. First of all it's not my business and even though he has attacked and slandered me for no good reason, any differences with him I might have I will work out face to face with him. I don't use the internet to attack someone or spread slanderous posts about them or try to sway other people to look down on someone else. That is cowardly and not what a man does.

It is not hard to get someone in the Jesuit order to talk with you if you present yourself with respect and intelligence. It is however hard to get anyone in the order to endorse you or sponsor you with theories or evidence of treasure or mines of gold and silver. In my experience the Jesuit order does not believe there was any connection whatsoever to Stone Maps or buried treasue or mines. That is their position and they are sticking with it.

But I can only speak for what my experience was. I cannot speak for someone else and I believe how you present yourself to the Jesuit order goes a long way in how they will interact with you. My stance is I will wait and see what RMG brings forward. I'm sure whatever it is will be entertaining and well produced. I think his work will stand or fall on it's own merits and I wish him well.

Best as always deducer,

Matthew
Matthew,

You make some great points and I agree, probably best to just let things be and see what happens.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Matthew Roberts » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:38 pm

cw0909 wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:45 pm
Matthew Roberts, will the journal & or article be published somewhere i can read it
thanks

Matthew Roberts
I wrote an article for the Superstition Mountain Historical Society 2017 Journal about Clarence Mitchell and his involvement with the Stone Maps. That 2017 Journal will be out sometime in October or November this fall.

cw0909,

The Superstition Mountain Historical Museum (SMHS) Journal will be published later this fall around the November time frame.
If you are a member of the SMHS Museum you get a free copy mailed to you.
If you are not a member, the Museum at Apache Junction will have copies for sale at the Museum.
You can also call the Museum and arrange for them to mail you a copy.

Membership at the Museum is not expensive and you get a lot of free perks by being a member.
I am proud to be one of the few Life Members of the SMHS Museum.

Best,

Matthew

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by babymick1 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:55 pm

Matthew, Deducer

Don't let those old Jesuits pull the wool over your eye's!
I read Polzer thought on the Stone Maps his answers were a tad bit misguided, but they work for the order and if they want to keep there job they best be alittle meek.

Now my best Friend since the beginning of Time, grew up went to Minneapolis Minnesota to the Catholic College and became a Catholic Priest. Now I stopped at his house to visit one day not saying a thing unpacked my stuff and layed out my stuff only to here him say, Hay what you doing with the SOJ stuff. The Jesuits symbols on those papers. The papers were print outs of the Stone Maps, He told me what each one ment real fast. He said it's the first six months of College you study Jesuits.

So tell me again how they don't know there past
My friend sure did. If that day would have never happen I surely would have never ever looked in those mountains.

I'm sure glad I did because I've been quite on a roll there for the past years.

They gathered any and all to be on top.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Marius » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:42 am

babymick1

I believe you have confused the Padres treasure with the stone maps treasure . .

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by babymick1 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:35 pm

Marius

Not at all, but Padres is just a fancy name for a Preist an't it

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