Mines in the Superstition Mountains

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roward
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by roward »

So is Horse Mesa also north of the Salt? From his decription of how they reached it, it sounds like it is south of it. But he says they could have climbed down the slope and over to the cave from where they were standing, so it would have to be north, wouldn't it? I think it would be interesting to see what could be found up there.
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

No, Horse Mesa is on the South side.
Here is a map that should cover the entire area That Robinson and Ely are talking about.
You can see where the Apache Trail crosses Fish Creek in the lower right corner of the map.
If I remember correctly, Skull Cave is just across the river (on the North side) somewhere in the area above the letter "H" in Horse Mesa.

Jim


Image


Bob, I don't know what your interest is in that area, but I have a story about it that you should be aware of before going up there.


A few months ago, Late in the afternoon, I walked into the Blue Bird Gift-Shop, and there was a fellow (whom I did not recognize) there talking to Louie about an adventure he had earlier that day on the West end of Horse Mesa.

Not wanting to interrupt them, I just began browsing around the Gift-Shop which is very small and listened as he told his story.

He said that he had climbed to the top of the Mesa and headed West to a point where he could see down to the river. He found an old trail that was heading down the west side of the Mesa and decided to follow it. He didn’t get more than 100 yards down the trail before he heard a deafening WHOOOP WHOOOP WHOOOPING sound like some kind Nuclear attack warning. When the sound stopped he heard a voice on a bull horn saying, “Leave the area immediately by the way you came in”! The message was repeated three times and then the Whooping alarm started again.

Needless to say, he started double timing it back up the trail to the top of the Mesa. He no sooner made it to the top when a helicopter came up over the ridge from a northerly direction, and looked like it was on a course that headed straight for him. It turned out that it WAS! If flew right over the top of him, and he heard another voice on a bull horn say STOP where you are and do not move. The helicopter landed on a little flat spot not far away from him and a man dressed like “Rambo” stepped out of it carrying some kind of assault weapon and started running right towards him.

He said he felt something warm running down his leg. The Rambo guy had not fired his weapon, so he knew it couldn’t be blood. Then he realized that he had just pissed all over himself. He was ordered to lay face down on the ground, and put his hands behind his head, which he did without asking why. Almost immediately a second Rambo guy came up from behind him and put his foot in the middle of his back, and ordered him not to move a muscle. He had no idea where this second guy came from. He had only seen one man get out of the helicopter.

He said they questioned him for about 20 minutes, before deciding that he was just a hiker that had wandered into the area with no specific intentions of any kind, and let him go, with no explanation of why all the concern for his being there.

By this time Louie and I were just standing there with our jaws dropped, wondering what to hell could be up there on the West side of Horse Mesa that would need that kind protection? We asked him if he had any idea of what it was all about, and he said he didn’t know, didn’t care, and was never going back to Horse Mesa again, as he headed out the door, climbed into his truck and he was gone.!

After he left I asked Louie if he knew the guys name. Louie said no, He was just a guy that stopped in for a six pack every now and then, but always got it to go without much conversation.

I couldn’t stop thinking about it for several days. I racked my brain for anything I could remember about Horse Mesa. Treasure stories, Lost Mine Stories, etc. The only thing I could think of was a story in the Bark Notes, about a Gold Mine that Jim Bark filed a claim on with another man (I forget his name, it might have been John Chuning) and it was somewhere up in that area near the river.

Finally I sent an e-mail to Tom Kollenborn telling him the story and asked him if he knew where Jim Bark had the mining claim up there, and if he had ever heard of anything happening in that area like the episode I had described?

Tom had no idea where Bark’s mining claim had been, and never heard a story like the one I had repeated to him, but he did have a theory about what was going on up there.

It was his opinion, based on the gist of the story, that it had to be something Governmental, and probably had something to with Homeland Security, and the side of the mountain was probably planted with motion sensors to detect anyone (like maybe a Terrorist) from approaching the Horse Mesa Dam from that direction with the intent of maybe blowing it up.

Now… Why didn’t I think of that? With all of my experience around Nuclear power Plants, I have seen a lot of Security Systems like that. My brain was locked into thoughts of massive amounts of Gold in some form and it was stuck on that track.

Anyway, that’s my story on Horse Mesa. Whatever your interest is in that area… If you ever make a hike up there, I would stay away from the West end above the Dam.

Jim
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Desert Cruiser »

Jim not being familiar with that area, I'd have to ask this --- Is the water in the reservoir for drinking water in some town? If the answer is yes then that would explain Homeland Security being so paranoid. However I've never heard of those guys running around in the desert like that; unless they're border patrol. What do we spend our tax money on? Or the other answer could be this -- the unknown guy in the store may have heard about you and wanted to make sure no one else came into an area he was prospecting in so made up the whole thing to scare people off? Just a couple of my thoughts.

Don....
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Don, Yes, That is where Phoenix and the whole surrounding area get's it's water from.
That area is long way from any boarder, but you never know...


Desert Cruiser wrote:the unknown guy in the store may have heard about you and wanted to make sure no one else came into an area he was prospecting in so made up the whole thing to scare people off?

Don....
Now that kind of thing happens all the time around here and has been going on as long as Apache Junction has been a town. I don't think it is applicable in this case tho, because I just stopped in there on the spur of the moment while driving by. No way he could have known I was going to be there. I'm sure I had never seen him before, and he didn't seem to recognize me either.

I can understand how Homeland Security might justify having a small round the clock Security Force stationed there... but... A helicopter? But then, that is the only to get around in that area if you are in a hurry. Maybe One helicopter is assigned to watch over all the Dams in the area, There are a string of them along the Salt River. It might have even come from Roosevelt Dam for that matter. Where ever it came from, it sounded like it was right on top of him in practically no time at all.

I can't imagine what I would do in a moment like that. It is one of those situations where you do know whether to wet your pants or bark at the moon. I hope I would have sense enough to do what he did... Do everything I was told to do, and keep my mouth shut until asked to speak. But... people that have known me for a while would probably tell you that I am more apt to duck behind a rock, and clear leather at the same time. I am just very thankful that it was him and not me. Now that I know that kind of thing can happen, I would stand a better chance of doing the right thing.
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Desert Cruiser »

Or maybe he was just trying to spread a rumor to keep others out; and you just happened by? It just didn't sound like anything that anyone other than border patrol would do. The HS guys are mainly interested in someone putting a virus or toxin in the drinking water, but usually guard roads around them, not with helicopters like that.

As for deleting anything -- can't here, only on the General Desert Information forum I moderate.

Don....
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Desert Cruiser wrote:Or maybe he was just trying to spread a rumor to keep others out;

Don....
That works! It could have been intended for everyone and not someone specific.

Now you've got me wondering... Should I go up there and look it over?
Hmmmmmmm... If you are correct... That guy could be harder to deal with than the Rambo guys if interrupted.

I think I'll just mind my own business, and let the warning stand for anyone thinking about going to that area.

Are you paying attention Bob Ward? Bob? Bob, Where are you Bob?

Jim

P.S. I can see it all now. Bob says to himself "THERE AIN'T NO STINKING RAMBO GUYS UP THERE" Throws a couple gallons of ice water in his pack, and we never hear from him again!

Yoooo Bob? Check in with us there Buddy!
:D
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Desert Cruiser »

Jim: Of course you don't know me, but first I couldn't walk that far but if I could I'd be thee tomorrow just to push it. I'd be dyeing of curiosity. Wait a minute, JIM, JIM, JIM are still with us.......

Don....
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

I'm still here Don,
Minding my own business,
I don't even think about what might or might not,
be up there on Horse Mesa any more.
No Sir! Not Me!
Minding my own business I am,
Doesn't bother me a bit,
No Sir, It's none of my business,
There could be Rambos up there
or there could be gold,
But I don't care,
No Sir Not Me!
No Sir Not Me!
No Sir Not Me!
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Goldseeker »

Jim Hatt wrote:I'm still here Don,
Minding my own business,
I don't even think about what might or might not,
be up there on Horse Mesa any more.
No Sir! Not Me!
Minding my own business I am,
Doesn't bother me a bit,
No Sir, It's none of my business,
There could be Rambos up there
or there could be gold,
But I don't care,
No Sir Not Me!
No Sir Not Me!
No Sir Not Me!


So when ya goin' back..? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Howdy Goldseeker,

I've been giving it lot of thought. Looking at the topo maps and recalling every detain of the story.

I have come to the conclusion that there is a major hole in the the story.

IE: Did you ever see or hear of any kind of Protected Area that was not POSTED with big KEEP OUT signs all over the place?

It doesn't make sense that a guy could get close enough to set off an alarm without seeing some warnings first.

I've got to think about this some more before deciding what I'm going to do.

Don's theory about the guy wanting to get some rumors started to scare people away from that area is looking better all the time.

I like Tom's theory about some kind of Homeland Security thing, but that was based on the story I told him. He pretty much accepted it as a true story and formed an opinion based on the details in it.

The question right now is... Has anyone ever seen or heard about a Protected Area that was not clearly Posted with Warning signs to KEEP OUT?

Jim
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