Mines in the Superstition Mountains

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Plays In The Dirt
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Post by Plays In The Dirt »

Jim Hatt wrote:
Plays In The Dirt wrote:Just my two cents if I may...

What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery?
Sorry PITD, I hadn't had enough coffee yet at 5 AM and mistook your comment above as a response from Goldseeker. I believe I edited my replies as necessary to correct my error and direct them to the right person.

Now I will reply to your question above.

Goldseeker was referring to a mine that he believed to be the "Dutchman" and said that it had been worked out by a "Company". Assuming that the Company was a legal and up-front organization, it would be reasonably safe, and logical to assume that they had filed a mining claim on the property. After that was done they could advertise the find and start selling stock to cover the expense of mining the claim.
Standard Operating Procedure Then and Now.

The only circumstance I can think of (Then or Now) right off the top of my head, where someone would be inclined to keep their discovery "Quiet", would be if for some reason they could not file a legal Mining Claim on the discovery. IE: If it was located on someone Else's Private Property, or, on Federal or State land that was closed to mining.

Did I misunderstand something?

Jim
Hi Jim, Hey, no apologies necessary. It was early for me, I hadn't had any coffee either, and I was getting ready to leave for work. :D In part my statements were actually questions as I know very little about these lost mine stories. I try and use logic and reason when I read things and have no fear of asking questions so that I can learn, (which I love doing). I do have an open mind on most things which is why I'm certain that there's quite a bit of truth in these stories. However, I also stand by my assumption that the stories have been distorted and embellished upon through the years. Could I be wrong here? That being said, it shouldn't stop "Anyone" from following-up on them, (the stories), and doing some searching on their own. I certainly don't want anyone to feel that I'm trying to paint a negative light on anyone who does because that's not my intent.

I've just recently taken an interest (again) in looking for gold as I live in a very rich area to do it in. Given that I'm an enthusiastic Outdoor Photographer and hike in a lot of remote areas, I thought that I'd incorporate looking for gold along the way. I'm trying to learn about how gold is formed and what to look for in the way of rock formations - etc. I know the geologist for the company I work for and he told me to stop-by his house anytime and ask whatever questions I may have. I do know this, gold can be fairly illusive (sp?) as there's been many people who have spent lifetimes looking for it and have never found any. I wished I could afford some of the equipment my company has, it would make exploring a lot easier.


Greg (aka PITD)
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Greg,

Amateur level Prospecting is probably a lot different than what you are used to. I could ramble on for pages about do's and dont's, Placer Gold vs Load Gold, types of Metal Detectors & Proton Magentometers, Dry Panners and Wet Panners, but the more I rambled the less you would absorb. In my opinion, the best way to learn is hands on experience, and observing others that know what they are doing. (On the amateur level)The best way to get that kind of experience is to join a local club. If you live in a mineralized area, I'd bet that the GPAA (Gold Prospectors Association of America) has a chapter near you. They have club outings where you can go to mining claims that the club owns. There will be lots of experienced members there, and you will be able to see all the latest amateur class equipment in use, and decide what you like before you buy it. My first two years in Arizona I maintained memberships in 3 clubs. The GPAA and two local clubs. Another large club that may have a chapter near you is the "Road Runners". After about two years of doing the club thing, it gets to a point where it is the same old thing over and over again. By that time you should have your first little gold bottle almost full of gold, and you start thinking that there must be a better place to get more gold faster. That is when it is time to strike out on your own to look for the Mother-lode! It's been my experience that those that hang on longer aren't driven by the desire to hit it big, and do so because they enjoy working with the new members and teaching them the things they have been taught by past members.
I think you would enjoy it, and there is no better way to learn.

Jim
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Goldseeker »

Desert Cruiser wrote:Well here it is --- first off I told Goldseeker his attitude was very negative and he replied it was only because his acquaintance told told him the Lost Dutchman had been found --- Well your posts with that (it's been found attitude) also included the post about Peglegs Gold. Remember that? Enough, you should realize that no ones said your deposits your looking for have already been found. So if your really interested in this Prospecting & Treasure Hunting then act like it.

Now some facts: 90% of the placer gold in Ca in the motherlode is still there waiting to be found, And it is every day by recreational dredgers. I know I was one of them for a lot of years, mostly on the weekends, but sometimes for longer periods too, and yes we found a lot of gold. Nontaxable gold. And we didn't have to do any location or claims.

I've already proved to myself that the treasures are there, or at least some of them. Which ones are what makes it fun to search for them. It takes a lot of research and time. Jim Hatt I'm sure has done that and he must have a very good reason to believe in it or he wouldn't have spent so much time on it. How could they hid it --- easy collapse a mountain side onto the cave or mine entrance to hid it. The Indians did the same thing after they ran the Spanish out of the country so when they came back they wouldn't find any more gold. Their greatest treasure was Turquoise not gold, in fact they hated gold.

There are different kinds of people in this world, some smart and some not so smart. The really smart ones wouldn't tell anyone if they found a treasure --- the complications are mind boggling and in the end you'd lose most of it, and if nothing else when you sold it (if you don't know where to do this) you'd pay an enormous tax on the income. On the other hand the other ones would run out and have to tell their FRIENDS and this would be a big mistake as mentioned above --- this has happened. Maybe you missed this ----------------
http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=221
So if your a prospector then show us your gold.

The story I put in here about the Baja Treasure. I actually met the man in question and saw his find. This story was related to me by a gentleman who worked for Nat Geo for years and now builds museums for income. Very knowledgeable person. But the main thing here is; another treasure story that's true and may never be found, or maybe it will be.

Try not be so negative and if you don't know anything about the subject, First hand that is, then don't knock it, instead read and learn, you could pick up an interesting lead. By the way treasure hunting is the best way to find riches --- think about it; someone else has done all the work for you in most cases, and in some have even poured the gold into bars refining it for you. Good luck out there.

Don....

The story about the pegleg find was sent to desert magazine, how that translates to me having a negative attitude for merely reporting it is beyond me.
The other one I already told you was just what was reported to me. How in the heck by merely passing it on is considered a negative attitude by you is beyond me.
Guess what? we have a document here in the USA. You might want to familiraze yourself with it. Its called the first ammendment to the constitution.

Good evening.
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

Jim Hatt wrote:Greg,

In my opinion, the best way to learn is hands on experience, and observing others that know what they are doing. (On the amateur level)The best way to get that kind of experience is to join a local club. If you live in a mineralized area, I'd bet that the GPAA (Gold Prospectors Association of America) has a chapter near you. They have club outings where you can go to mining claims that the club owns. There will be lots of experienced members there, and you will be able to see all the latest amateur class equipment in use, and decide what you like before you buy it.
Jim
Hi Jim,

I used to belong to a California club when I lived there. We used to pull our trailer to the outings and had a great time doing it. They worked their sites around Big Bear with drywashers. It was more like a camp-out with friends and they had Bar-B-Ques and showed-off all of the latest equipment they had for sale. But that was then. I'm more or less a loner in that I like to explore by myself or with one other person. Anymore I don't subscribe to group gatherings much. Although they can be fun outings, I don't believe they are real serious in their ventures and tend to be more commercial. I think I'm just going to nose around a little and see what I can find out from people around here. One problem is that around here a lot of the land already has staked claims on it so it will be hard to find areas that are not already claimed to search on. It will be fun doing so as I'm out looking for Photographic opportunities.
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by roward »

Here I am, Jim..no computer at home, remember? Have to wait till I get to work. Anyway, that story is very much like one I read on another treasure or Dutchman website awhile back. This guy and a friend were hiking somewhere in the Supes, maybe near Weaver's Needle, and as soon as they passed a certain point, this helicopter came zooming toward them seemingly from nowhere, landed, and two armed guys got out and started walking toward them. They beat a hasty retreat. He seemed to believe it had to do with Jesuit gold stashes that are being protected and watched over by some secret group in Vegas (I think). If I ever find the site again, I'll post the URL. But it certainly sounds very much like what this guy described. If it's not government, it's certainly someone who has deep pockets. It reminds me of the way they protect diamond mines in South Africa, except I would think that land would be posted in some way.
Now, I wouldn't put it past the government to do something like this, but sommon sense says that they'd be very wary because there could be an investigation and a slap on the wrist to the agency involved. It sounds more to me like some paramilitary group with lot's of money. The question would be, what are they protecting? Maybe instead of looking for Michael, you should take a big gang of guys up to Horse Mesa and see in they could intimidate an armed posse?
Bob
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Greg,

Well heck! If you've already been there and done the club thing.
You're all ready to to go search for the big one! Let me see... You're in Yuma right? If so, The Peg Leg comes to mind. Anybody you know ever find some of those black Nuggets? Maybe when the weather cools off, you and Don could get over this way and participate in a search for Michael Bilbrey in the Superstitions? The area I have in mind to search for him (or what's left of him) holds a lot of possibilities. If nobody finds him by this Fall, I am going to organize a group of strong hikers and go have a good look at the area where he had his mining claims.


Bob Ward,

I live on the west side of the Superstitions on the Apache Trail, (Hwy 88) and can see Weaver's Needle from my driveway. I have been here 11 years and have never seen/heard as many helicopters out there as I have in the last two years. Not an every day thing, but at least once a month on average. Sometimes they land the Medi-Vac helicopters in a flat area across the road from me, when they are picking up accident victims from accidents (auto) along the Apache Trail. I know what those are all about. Sometimes I see an SRP (Salt River Project) helicopter running the power lines across the Hwy, and I know what they are about. But other times I can hear a chopper far away and can't get an eyeball on him. It is illegal for a private chopper to fly low or touch down in the Wilderness Area, But the Sheriff's Chopper (That would be Sheriff "Joe", You might not have heard of him since you are not from Arizona.) and Rescue Services do it whenever there is an emergency situation in the mountains. (This doesn't happen too often). The choppers I am familiar with always come from the Phoenix direction, and return by the same route right over my house. Those choppers that I hear and can never get an eyeball on, have to be using another route into and out of the mountains. Most likely Private owned or maybe Military Choppers from the Tucson area. Just another mystery to add to the Legends and Lore of the Superstitions. I forgot you didn't have a computer at home. Was beginning to wonder if maybe you had jumped on a Red Eye flight to Phoenix, and if we were going to have to organize a Search Party for you on Horse Mesa. Did you look at that 3D map I posted of that area? The West side of the Mesa is about 80% vertical landscape with no easy access to it from any direction.
Sooner or later, someone will join this website that knows what's going on up there and and give us the First Hand Scoop on it. I would rather patiently wait for that to happen, than tackle that area myself.

Jim
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Kathy »

Just a thought! Anyone consider a big money making drug business
up there :?: Not unheard of in the Sierras.
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Not much soil for things to grow in around here Kathy. Very little rain.
I don't know if anything would grow there besides cactus. But you never know.
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

Jim Hatt wrote:Greg,

Well heck! If you've already been there and done the club thing.
You're all ready to to go search for the big one! Let me see... You're in Yuma right? If so, The Peg Leg comes to mind. Anybody you know ever find some of those black Nuggets? Maybe when the weather cools off, you and Don could get over this way and participate in a search for Michael Bilbrey in the Superstitions? The area I have in mind to search for him (or what's left of him) holds a lot of possibilities. If nobody finds him by this Fall, I am going to organize a group of strong hikers and go have a good look at the area where he had his mining claims.

Jim
Jim, No I'm in Eureka Nevada. I know Don and his wife Linda personally and we have made a couple of outings together in Utah. I'd love to see them again and going to Arizona to explore would be fun. However, have you ever heard someone say that "They're Job Gets In The Way Of Their Life?"
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Kathy »

You are right Jim about growing anything on the desert that doesn't
have a chance here.But I was talking about a pick-up and drop-off
for hard drugs (cocaine,crack,ect) coming in from other places by helicopters.Kathy
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