Mines in the Superstition Mountains

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Goldseeker
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Goldseeker »

I wandered onto the 29 palms marine base once in my blazer 4x4, there was a jeep there with 2 marines in no time at all, they showed me where it was posted, but if you weren't looking for it, easy to miss it. They merely told me to leave, no problem. I did have some guns in the blazer, but they didnt seem to care, as long as I left, which I did. I know where the boundaries are now... :lol:

The thing about yours is the helicopters. No private citizen could pull that off, and the gov would not be protecting a lost mine. People are people. Those assigned to protect such a thing would no doubt be *high grading* it themselves.

I just personally think it was found a long time ago. But, I could be wrong.

I have a couple places here I want to check this winter. Our problem is closures. I know, you can go in on foot. Yeah right, with 150 lbs of equiptment, walk in 6, 10, 15 miles....fu***n idiots.

PITD says go to Nevada. One problem. The places I need to check, and the gold IS there, are here, not in Nevada. So, I, we, have to deal with the beauracrats.... :evil: :roll:
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Goldseeker,

That’s interesting that you wandered into a Protected Area without seeing any Warning signs. I guess there is no way to foretell every possible route by which a 4-Wheeler or a Hiker might find to approach an area and post it. They both seem to thrive on the idea of “Going where no man has gone before”. LOL

I agree with you. There are places where the possibilities of finding a rich deposit are very good, but the risk involved with getting to them, eliminates them from places that I want to visit.

I’ve been doing some sleuthing around town. I went to several local restaurants and Taverns where Treasure Hunters and Prospectors are known to hang out. I found 3 people that had heard “A” story about the Protected Area on Horse Mesa. Naturally there were variations in all of them. Two were similar to the story I heard. One version was very close but there was no helicopter involved. Another version had a helicopter, but it never landed and two Rambos appeared from behind boulders. The third version said that there were 3 helicopters and about 20 Rambos. The story is morphing very quickly as it spreads. No wonder there are so many versions of 100 + year old Buried Treasure and Lost Mine stories.

When I asked the people I talked to, to describe the guy that had the experience on Horse Mesa. (Nobody would give me a name) But I got three totally different physical descriptions. Either more than one person has had a similar experience up there, or, as often is the case, people hear a story from someone and when they repeat it to someone else, they place themselves in the story as the individual that had the experience. I am beginning to wonder now if the version of the story that I heard was the original story, or a repeated (and already morphed) version of it. Especially since the guy I heard it from was in such a hurry to leave after telling it, and didn’t stick around to answer any questions.

I am just about convinced that Don’s theory about what is going on up on Horse Mesa makes more sense than anything else. Somewhere in my files I am sure I have an old story about a mine up there somewhere. I remember the person that wrote it said that he entered Fish Creek where it crossed the Apache Trail, and went downstream to a point where he followed a trail up the North side of the canyon. I believe he went on to say that he worked his way to the top of Horse Mesa. I will spend some time this evening looking for that story, and post it for the benefit of the younger, and more ambitious generation of Treasure Hunters. I know that 20 years ago I would have jumped on something like that with both feet, but at this late date, the idea of beginning a search, in a new area, that I have never been in before, just doesn’t appeal to me.

On the way home I decided I would go back to the topo map and see if I could even make the story fit with the terrain on Horse Mesa.

The first thing I noticed was that there appeared to be only two reasonable ways to get to Horse Mesa on foot from the Apache Trail (Hwy 88). One is to take the Service Road for the Dam which has a locked gate about 1/8 mile off the Hwy. (You can’t drive a vehicle in, but you can park and walk). The other way would be to follow Fish Creek from where it crosses the Hwy. Both ways would bring you to the bottom of Horse Mesa at the river, approx. 1900 feet below the top of the Mesa. Another way, would be to go up the river by boat. It would sure save a lot of hiking, but you would still arrive at the bottom of Horse Mesa.

Image


The next thing I did was to have a look at the west end of Horse Mesa in 3d mode, and see how the terrain would fit with the story. One look at that 3D map, and I lost all interest in Horse Mesa. If anyone is working a gold deposit in that area, they don’t have to worry about this Ole’ Cowboy interrupting them!


Image


Take Care My friend, And.... Busca El Coazon!

Jim
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Desert Cruiser »

Jim with government people it's hard to tell; for example --- if you cross the Boulder Dam today you'll be stopped and questioned by HS, but there are no signs around the Lake above it, and it's supposed to be to stop terrorists from dropping an agent into the water supply. Maybe HS just needed something to do to show that they were a necessity. In other words a way to keep their jobs. Another example --- being stopped for taking photos of a dam, military air field, or public buildings. This is happening all over the country, and has even happened to us at Yuma Marine Corp base. Stupid, but that's their way. A terrorist would use a small hand held Point & Shoot camera so as not to make it obvious, not a large SLR with a big telephoto like we had. By the way we didn't let them stop us from taking photos of planes coming into the air field. It's our right if on public property. They did take our names -- so what. So it would be hard to make sense of it, after all you might be dealing with the government; what does that tell you. However it still sounds unbelievable to me. If nothing else the overreaction of the guard (putting his foot on his back) doesn't jive with me. Heck like I said, if I could walk in there, I'd go and stand my ground, but be polite if you did run into them. They are not supposed to hassle citizens with bodily harm, especially if there is no signs. Let us know if you make it back alive. LOL.

Wishing I could come over there and go in with you. Don.....
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Desert Cruiser »

Ok so I missed this last page and I think your right, just a bunch of hooey. Waste of time, and like Goldseeker says about all treasure sites -- It's already been found anyway -- yeh right! Well of course except for his sites in Ca. We'll see. Interesting stories just the same.

Don....
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Goldseeker »

Desert Cruiser wrote:Ok so I missed this last page and I think your right, just a bunch of hooey. Waste of time, and like Goldseeker says about all treasure sites -- It's already been found anyway -- yeh right! Well of course except for his sites in Ca. We'll see. Interesting stories just the same.

Don....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now you know I never said that. When I have more time I will list a few that IMO are still out there. And what about new finds? Why does it always have to be a lost mine. Sure, looking for a lost mine is fine and will put you in a mineralized area, but keep your mind and eyes open to something new.
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Desert Cruiser »

Goldseeker: I honestly don't think you remember what you said, and that's alright. It's just you sound so negative to others. Here's a few of your messages that I just found real quick on just this forum. Maybe you don't realize it ---


Its been found, obviously. But, although its been found and probably, for the greater part, worked out, is the site of the find known today?

He had a very convincing agrument as to why in his opinion it was actually discovered and worked out about about 20 years after the dutchman's death... and yes it was rich, and the ore was identical. Its been found a long time ago.

I just personally think it was found a long time ago. But, I could be wrong.

And this one from Jim B's post:
Goldseeker posted this mine or area has been found, but you did not give any details, like who found it?

Just a heads up for you. These are your posts.....

Don....
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Goldseeker »

Desert Cruiser wrote:Goldseeker: I honestly don't think you remember what you said, and that's alright. It's just you sound so negative to others. Here's a few of your messages that I just found real quick on just this forum. Maybe you don't realize it ---


Its been found, obviously. But, although its been found and probably, for the greater part, worked out, is the site of the find known today?

He had a very convincing agrument as to why in his opinion it was actually discovered and worked out about about 20 years after the dutchman's death... and yes it was rich, and the ore was identical. Its been found a long time ago.

I just personally think it was found a long time ago[/color]. But, I could be wrong.

And this one from Jim B's post:
Goldseeker posted this mine or area has been found, but you did not give any details, like who found it?

Just a heads up for you. These are your posts.....

Don....

What I said was when I was talking about the dutchman, not all mines/lost mines.
I personally think the lost dutchman has been found. Whats the problem? Yes I wrote it and would again. Yes 20 years after the dutchman died, rich ore like his was discovered and worked by a company. We went all over this one night around the campfire. If someone else wants to look for it, go ahead. Its had many people look, and not found. Common sense tells me:

* Its not where everyone thinks it is
* Already found and worked without much publicity.

Back then with all the bandits, cutthroats, Indians, would anyone advertise a find like that?

I know of several tales of gold found, lost, or told about by Indians. There are others not so believable. I dont really want to disclose them all, but if you could find a copy of a long out of print book called " 200 trails to gold" by Samuel L Jackson, it would be well worth the price.

I have also heard of others, found once, with pretty convincing evidence (the ore itself) and never relocated. I ran into a blog once with tales about early living in this area, not much about gold, except for 1 mention, of a person who used to travel between Old Dale and Amboy and found a very impressive virgin find, and had the proof.(3 tabacco bags of nearly pure gold) He traveled the same route with slight variance for exploring, and on one of these discovered a very good find. He shortly thereafter died of food poisioning. They think its now on the marine base or close to it. There is suppossed to be some decent ore on the base.

Another about a person who used to travel south into the desert from Joshua Tree, and always return with good gold. This was recent.

Theres more, I have heard several first hand tales right from this area. The dutchman is not for me, but if others want to go, by all means do it. Its just I dont personally think its findable because of reasons already stated. The others have much less people looking for them, if anybody, and the ones I know about are certifiable.
Last edited by Goldseeker on Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Goldseeker,

RE: your statement; "I personally think the lost dutchman has been found. Whats the problem? Yes I wrote it and would again. Yes 20 years after the dutchman died, rich ore like his was discovered and worked by a company."

I may have asked this before, but if so, I never saw a reply.

What are the details in the way of evidence on which you base your opinion that the Dutchman has been found?

Character of the ore, based on someone's opinion, which is based on a visual examination, just won't hold up under scrutiny. Especially if it was done 20 years after the Dutchman's death. There was no Dutchman ore floating around for just anyone to make that kind of comparison during that time period.

Where did the information come from to make the call that the mine in question was the same mine as the one worked by Jacob Waltz?

There were only three people (possibilities) alive at that time who could have made that kind of call. Julia Thomas, Rhiney Petrasch and Dick Holmes, and they were all actively searching for the mine themselves, and... they were not broadcasting anything in the way of information that would help anyone identify the mine, or the landmarks around it that might possibly help anyone else find it.

So... How could your friend make the call?

You can believe your friend found it if you want to, but I seriously doubt that you will ever be able to make anyone else believe it.

Just my two cents worth.

Jim
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Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

Just my two cents if I may...


What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery? And how did it become lost? Why wouldn't they have mined it and moved on?

With technology the way it was way back then, (and there wasn't much) I do believe that most of the discovered gold was placer gold. Or in other words, gold that was discovered in alluvial deposits and was mined by water pressure, open pit, panning and tunneling. Most all of it that was discovered was more or less near the surface, and was moved by water flow from the main deposit. It was usually in nugget form and was easier to discover. Today much of the gold that's mined is microscopic and is extracted by different modern processes.

I personally believe that there is much gold still left out there to discover, as it's hard to believe that as much land mass as there is out there, every inch of it has been searched. I live and work in an area that is rich in gold and other minerals, and although it has been heavily searched through the years, there is still plenty left. Even with modern technology we're still discovering new deposits in the area I work. I don't believe that all of the placer gold has been discovered either as erosion keeps bringing more to the surface. Gold is where you find it I've been told.

As far as the "lost mine" stories go, I'm certain that some of them may be true but have been embellished through the years. You know how it is that if you were to have a long line of people and you were to whisper a short story to the first person in line and ask him to repeat it to the next person in line and so on, you wouldn't recognize it (the story) by the time it hit the end of the line. Not trying to cast a negative aspect on the stories, however, because as I said some of them may be quite true and there's many people who go out and follow-up on them, and that's okay! Will I go out and chase them myself, probably not. I personally enjoy getting out and poking around looking for new areas to discover. It's out there...
Jim Hatt

Re: Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains

Post by Jim Hatt »

Good Morning Goldseeker (edited to direct to the right individual)

I don't think you understood my question. I'll keep it short.

What criteria did your friend use to make the call, that the mine you are talking about was the mine that was worked by Jacob Waltz (The Dutchman)?

Jim
Last edited by Jim Hatt on Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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