SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

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i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:35 pm

Paul,

It's true that the topic has drifted off topic, but most of us just follow where the conversation leads.

On the other hand, I missed the "personal attacks" you mentioned.
Did someone delete their post????

Take care,

Joe

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by babymick1 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:44 pm

Joe,

There was no personal attacks, just good old male bonding, I thought it was leading to BFF. (best friends forever)

Babymick1 Herrrrrrrr!

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by silent hunter » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:13 am

No joe Noone deleted there post. But one of your book club members tryed to spare you......We are tough Men here in arizona. Sims said it best on the first page.....Stay home and chew your tabaco spit and tell your lies....All you that are to old to search boots on ground and all you to far away to really search...It is evil that calls out to you....It says leave your family search for this Gold. All you can ever do is read about this adventure that I live.....We are tough men!! This is are play ground!! Dont be a hater just because I can leave work and search the areas you left home to search any day.....HAHAHA. Paul I am on topic....

AKA
Mr. Know it all
Kurt Painter B.A.M.F.

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by babymick1 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:15 am

Kurt

I don't agree with you, Never be part of the legend, I Babymick1 will be the last name to the legend.


Wayne R. Mickelson

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:00 am

silent hunter wrote:No joe Noone deleted there post. But one of your book club members tryed to spare you......We are tough Men here in arizona. Sims said it best on the first page.....Stay home and chew your tabaco spit and tell your lies....All you that are to old to search boots on ground and all you to far away to really search...It is evil that calls out to you....It says leave your family search for this Gold. All you can ever do is read about this adventure that I live.....We are tough men!! This is are play ground!! Dont be a hater just because I can leave work and search the areas you left home to search any day...... Paul I am on topic....

AKA
Mr. Know it all
Kurt Painter B.A.M.F.
_________________________

Kurt,

Many thanks for the clarifications.

I don't hate you at all. On the other hand, I do envy people who are still able to hike into the mountains. I have no problem in admitting that I am a "has been". I do try to keep up with what is going on in the range, and who's who in the LDM Zoo. ;)

Once again, thank you for your kind words and advice.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by silent hunter » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:18 am

No Joe, thank you! for bringing out the best in me! It reminds me of the Jones and Piper camps.....

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:49 am

Dirty Dutchman wrote:Hey Joe,

You could ask Mr. Glover if you'd like, but the exact same words are italicized in Corbin's "Bible". Two different books, with certain words italicized.

It's my opinion that they must appear that way in the original writings for both authors to use them that way.

Thanks,
Travis
Travis,

Received a reply from Dr. Glover this morning. As I suspected, the original manuscript was done on a typewriter in the 1950s. That being the case, it would not have italicized text.

The text you are referring to "may have been, probably was/is in quotes.....". He tells me he probably italicized to to make it stand out.

Dr. Glover believes you are correct about the breaks in the Waltz narrative, and putting them in italics would help to separate the Waltz narrative from the non-narrative making it less confusing for
the reader.

Thomas and I have had many conversations about the Holmes Manuscript. He is aware that I have little faith in it's authenticity and truthfulness. Our differing opinions do not interfere with our friendship. I hold high respect for the man and his work. Like many others, he placed too much faith in one of his friends/sources. Happens to all of us. :cry:

Take care,

Joe

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by somehiker » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:00 pm

silent hunter wrote:No joe Noone deleted there post. But one of your book club members tryed to spare you......We are tough Men here in arizona. Sims said it best on the first page.....Stay home and chew your tabaco spit and tell your lies....All you that are to old to search boots on ground and all you to far away to really search...It is evil that calls out to you....It says leave your family search for this Gold. All you can ever do is read about this adventure that I live.....We are tough men!! This is are play ground!! Dont be a hater just because I can leave work and search the areas you left home to search any day.....HAHAHA. Paul I am on topic....

AKA
Mr. Know it all
Kurt Painter B.A.M.F.
Kurt:

I for one,although "old as dust" as you have noted,bear no resentment to your having more frequent opportunities to visit the mountains.Retirement from the daily grind may give some of us more time to hike out there as well.When that day arrives,we may be able to join you for tours of what you have discovered,unless the bridges have been burned of course.Don't forget,there have been occasions in the past,with at least one related to a problem at MD,where your friends here stood beside you.
As we also did with Jim.

Regards:Wayne

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by AshtonPage » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:56 am

Travis,

I get what you said about the saddle and I agree with you that Brownie made his own interpretations – which happen to be all over the map (so to speak). That’s the reason I limit what I consider legit in Holmes story to only those 3 things that Brownie himself was trying to find.


Joe,

Thanks for passing Dr. Glover’s info on to us.
Brownie denies actually writing the manuscript but the interesting thing is; “the (Holmes) family still have Brownies copies of the manuscript.” (Holmes Manuscript, preface x). Of course, that assumes that people didn’t just tell Glover what they wanted him to hear – something I believe is a distinct possibility.


All,
Back on topic – I contend that if Weiser is a fictional account to cover Waltz’s actions, then what changes for all the DH’ers following Sims - is primarily that the mine does not necessarily have to be within shooting distance of a ridge.
Glover (off topic again) was NOT able to find sufficient historical records (taxes, census, etc.) to convince him that Weiser ever existed and I’m inclined to agree.

So for the moment, I’m sticking with Weiser simply being a cover story for Waltz’s actions. Following Waltz’s story of where he and Weiser camped, going over a ridge to get to the mine, etc. was just one more reason why Julia and Reiney had such a difficult time of things. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.
I’m still working out where the “Weiser map” and story came from – see Sims chapter 4.


Best,
Ashton

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by cubfan64 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:00 am

Something that always strikes me about the Holme's manuscript is that the idea of Brownie writing it himself just doesn't seem to fit what we've been told about his personality.

When it came to the Lost Dutchman, Brownie seems to be described as someone who kept his secrets very close to his vest. Other than Clay Worst, I don't know that Brownie confided those secrets to anyone else, and it's hard to say whether he even told Clay everything. So why would someone like that sit down and write a manuscript?

While it's certainly possible that he changed his mind at some point as he got older and decided he wanted to share some things publicly, why would he then deny he ever wrote it?

Something just doesn't sit well with the whole idea to me.

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