SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

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AshtonPage
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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by AshtonPage » Sat May 05, 2012 9:42 pm

Hi Travis,

I do see your point about Ely using misdirection about the Walker-Weedin map, therefore that map is a legit clue. However, I also think it’s worthwhile noting that Ely \ Bark lumped all the clues (as in ‘all the clues’ ) together. What I’m saying is; I believe the Weedin map is legit and it goes somewhere, but not to the LDM. I know, Bark and Ely thought it did but then Bark and Ely thought everything went to the LDM.
I believe the Weedin map leads somewhere other than the LDM because I am convinced that Waltz had no partner.

Couple reasons for me believing there never was any Weiser: Glover points out there is no historical record of a Jacob Weiser – none. Secondly, there is no mention of Weiser in Holmes version. But more importantly (to me anyway) is at the area I believe to be the LDM, there is no way you could make a comfortable kill-shot from the ridge to where I think the mine is – again meaning there was no Weiser. Lastly (and this is my own opinion, based on what I have seen) there are three peaks and the center one is marked with 4 stones (3 in a line and one off to the side) but NO frying pan - and no Weiser also means no frying pan. Incidentally, the 3 stones in a line point away from the walled up tunnel – meaning I believe the walled-up tunnel does not ‘intersect’ the shaft. Further, I do not believe it was Waltz who walled-up the tunnel – why would you take the time in hostile Apache territory (supposedly where your partner had just been murdered) to wall up an EMPTY tunnel that goes NOWHERE? You wouldn’t. I used to think that Waltz walled-up the tunnel because he stashed the cache in the abandon tunnel, but after further investigation, I believe the cache is at his camp – away from the mine. “Meiner mine ist Nordlich” meaning the mine is northerly direction from the cache and the camp. “you can’t find one without the other” is because (I believe) you have to pass through the camp to get to the mine.

Think about it, if Waltz murdered to gain possession of the mine, then the LAST place he would put the cache is at (or even near) the mine – and for good reason. While dead men tell no tales, they have relatives that will come looking for them when they disappear.
No Weiser also means that Waltz never ‘rode his horse in a lather to the mine’ - because you can’t get there on horse, not even close. “You have to go in on foot.”

Now, I do realize what I am doing. I am making the clues ‘fit’ my pet area that I found. Yes, I understand how dangerous that can be, but once I dropped Weiser from the equation, things began to fall into place rapidly. This also means that (assuming I am at the right place – big assumption) that I have seen things that are missing and \ or deliberate mis-directions from what is in the Holmes Mss and what Waltz would have actually said.

My trips into the Superstitions are now limited and I need to either fish or cut bait. I’ve been thinking about that, and the best and quickest way to find out if I am in the right place is to mention to someone ‘in the know’ something along the lines of; “there is NO WAY Waltz would have ever said blah, blah, blah. What Waltz actually told Holmes was yada, yada, yada.”

If I get raised eyebrows, then I need to figure out if I can trust that person enough to take them to where I believe Waltz’s hideout is and maybe they can pace it off from there.
And if they tell me that I am full of…. uhhh…. beans, then I will know that I am wasting my time in my area.

Best,
Ashton

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by Dirty Dutchman » Sat May 05, 2012 10:40 pm

[quote="AshtonPage"]Hi Travis,

I do see your point about Ely using misdirection about the Walker-Weedin map, therefore that map is a legit clue. However, I also think it’s worthwhile noting that Ely \ Bark lumped all the clues (as in ‘all the clues’ ) together. What I’m saying is; I believe the Weedin map is legit and it goes somewhere, but not to the LDM. I know, Bark and Ely thought it did but then Bark and Ely thought everything went to the LDM.
I believe the Weedin map leads somewhere other than the LDM because I am convinced that Waltz had no partner.

Couple reasons for me believing there never was any Weiser: Glover points out there is no historical record of a Jacob Weiser – none. Secondly, there is no mention of Weiser in Holmes version. But more importantly (to me anyway) is at the area I believe to be the LDM, there is no way you could make a comfortable kill-shot from the ridge to where I think the mine is – again meaning there was no Weiser. Lastly (and this is my own opinion, based on what I have seen) there are three peaks and the center one is marked with 4 stones (3 in a line and one off to the side) but NO frying pan - and no Weiser also means no frying pan. Incidentally, the 3 stones in a line point away from the walled up tunnel – meaning I believe the walled-up tunnel does not ‘intersect’ the shaft. Further, I do not believe it was Waltz who walled-up the tunnel – why would you take the time in hostile Apache territory (supposedly where your partner had just been murdered) to wall up an EMPTY tunnel that goes NOWHERE? You wouldn’t. I used to think that Waltz walled-up the tunnel because he stashed the cache in the abandon tunnel, but after further investigation, I believe the cache is at his camp – away from the mine. “Meiner mine ist Nordlich” meaning the mine is northerly direction from the cache and the camp. “you can’t find one without the other” is because (I believe) you have to pass through the camp to get to the mine.

Think about it, if Waltz murdered to gain possession of the mine, then the LAST place he would put the cache is at (or even near) the mine – and for good reason. While dead men tell no tales, they have relatives that will come looking for them when they disappear.
No Weiser also means that Waltz never ‘rode his horse in a lather to the mine’ - because you can’t get there on horse, not even close. “You have to go in on foot.”

Now, I do realize what I am doing. I am making the clues ‘fit’ my pet area that I found. Yes, I understand how dangerous that can be, but once I dropped Weiser from the equation, things began to fall into place rapidly. This also means that (assuming I am at the right place – big assumption) that I have seen things that are missing and \ or deliberate mis-directions from what is in the Holmes Mss and what Waltz would have actually said.

My trips into the Superstitions are now limited and I need to either fish or cut bait. I’ve been thinking about that, and the best and quickest way to find out if I am in the right place is to mention to someone ‘in the know’ something along the lines of; “there is NO WAY Waltz would have ever said blah, blah, blah. What Waltz actually told Holmes was yada, yada, yada.”

If I get raised eyebrows, then I need to figure out if I can trust that person enough to take them to where I believe Waltz’s hideout is and maybe they can pace it off from there.
And if they tell me that I am full of…. uhhh…. beans, then I will know that I am wasting my time in my area.

Best,
Ashton


Ashton,

Good luck brother. If you exhaust your search area, and feel like taking a tough a$$ hike into the hills, hit me up when you're in town.

Thanks,
Travis

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by AshtonPage » Sun May 06, 2012 4:28 pm

Hi Travis,

I look forward to the hike. There's a couple things on the trail I'll point out along the way.

Best,
Ashton

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Re: SIMS ELY'S BOOK - The Lost Dutchman Mine

Post by Crazy Old Man » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:02 pm

Hi Jim: I read the "SIM ELY'S BOOK - Lost Dutchman Mine " article. It was great! However, after years of research about the Lost Dutchman Mine I never found any information that the Peralta Mines were pit mines except in this article. Peralta miners and probably Jacob Weiser and Jacob Waltz (The Dutchman) used toe ladders (boards with notches on either side at intervals) to access the Lost Dutchman Mine. Crazy Old Man

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