GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

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cubfan64
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by cubfan64 »

Thanks for clarifying "Magdeburg" for me - It's been years since I've read either Blair or Corbin's books. I did a quick search on a couple LDM forums and Magdeburg didn't come up on either one, so it doesn't look as though it's been looked into very well.
i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i »

Paul,

It was no problem to look up the sources, as they are all on a bookshelf directly over my desk at home. While I only remember, vaugely, the mention of those details, I knew where to look for them.

Interesting that the spelling of Ferdinand's surname went from Madgeburg in Blair's book, to Magdeberg in what followed.

My guess would be that Ferdinand leased land on Waltz's farm to grow his grain, and left Waltz the grain to pay off his debt.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by roc2rol »

Joe:
Do you think the Magdeburg document in Corbin book is verifiable (p120) ?
Not that it lead to anything
But what year was it that Waltz wrote the document
assigning his belongings to Andrew Starrar?
Thanks
Ed
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i »

roc2rol wrote:Joe:
Do you think the Magdeburg document in Corbin book is verifiable (p120) ?
Not that it lead to anything
But what year was it that Waltz wrote the document
assigning his belongings to Andrew Starrar?
Thanks
Ed
Ed,

Of course it's possible, but when you consider the authenticity of the document on the very next page (transmitting draft), many of the "documents" in Helen's book should be viewed with suspicion.

Aug. 8, 1878 would be the date for the Waltz document signing his property and goods to Andrew Starrar.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by roc2rol »

That interesting Joe


The Magdeburg document dates to Sept 8th 1877
Less than a year later
Waltz wills his belongings to Andrew Starrar on Aug. 8, 1878

Its been speculated that Waltz got sick during this period.
Possible
Yet lived another 13 years and many have asked:
Where were the Starrar Bros when Waltz was in need?

Magdeburg lived on Starrar property according to Corbin
That may be factual or fiction
Regardless the Starrar are in the center of all this willing
Because Waltz will is pretty factual. Heck its in his handwriting!
Right?

None of this determined a mines whereabouts.
But I believe there are still documents-- pertaining to the Starrar Bros.--
that are yet to be discovered-- that will shed new light and cast new shadows
Thanks Again!
Ed
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by tripp »

Hello Joe and All:

It's been several years ago that Garry and I looked into the Magdeberg probate, and looking back over my notes I don't see how to address everything in a single post.

In fact, the topic would no doubt justify an entire thread of its own which is something I can't tackle just now.

First things first, Ferdinand Magdeberg (proper spelling) did exist, and he did leave all his worldly possessions to his "old friend", Jacob Waltz.

There are extensive records on file in Maricopa County on the Magdeberg probate, and to my knowledge there is no secret about any of it. It is easily researched if you have the time. My personal feeling is that the files are simply so complex and a bit extensive, that nobody has taken the time to do a detailed analysis of what the probate entailed.

In a nutshell, the administrator of Magdeberg's estate was Henry Slosser. He was responsible for accounting for all of Magdeberg's assets and liabilities, and after ensuring that all the estate's debts were paid, he distributed the remaining assets to Jacob Waltz in accordance with Magdeberg' wishes. The entire process was supervised and approved by the Probate Court of Maricopa County, which covered everything from the admission of Magdeberg's will into probate, through the final accounting and distribution of the estate.

The estate (described below) coming into Slosser's hands after Magdeberg's death was initially appraised at $925.25.

Magdeberg's debts totaled $499.61, for which Slosser eventually filed vouchers showing payment in full.

Property remaining in Slosser's hands after payment of Magdeberg's debts totaled $530.96.

After some quick math, you'll see that the initial appraisal of $925.25 was a little low, but that's getting into detail that is beside the point right now.

At Slosser's final accounting before the probate judge on 29 September 1879, the following property was shown as residual and was destined to be turned over to the legatee (Jacob Waltz):

- Barley in sacks (21,557 lbs@ $0.0125) ($269.46)
- Blue mare and colt ($40) {named Mary}
- Bay mare ($25) {named Fannie}
- 3 shares in Griffin irrigation ditch ($75)
- 1 share in [??? - unreadable] irrigation ditch ($5)
- 1 pair of blankets ($3.50)
- 1 promissory note due on Slosser & Karg ($100) {Slosser’s name crossed out}
- 1 lot of lumber & hauling same ($13)
- Total of the above coming to $530.96

After the decree of distribution of the estate was issued by the court, Waltz received and signed for the above property, and these receipts signed by Waltz are part of the official probate record. An example of one of the receipts signed by Waltz for Magdeberg's property can be seen on page 30 of Tom Kollenborn's and James Swanson's "A Ride Through Time".

Dr Glover does briefly mention the Magdeberg probate records, on page 166 of his book (The Golden Dream).

As for the transcript of Magdeberg's will given in Helen's book (The Bible), keep in mind that the center page of the will is missing, and the transcription of the remaining two pages contains several errors, but that is not surprising considering the original handwriting (it is definitely difficult to read).


Hope all are well, and Joe, I hope you're feeling better and getting along okay.

Will be in touch.

Larry
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by tripp »

Sorry folks, but I blew it on the spelling of Ferdinand's last name.

The correct spelling appears to be:

Magdeburg

(With a "u" instead of an "e").

Also, I just wanted to mention, in case it wasn't clear, that Blair's comment about Magdeburg living with Andrew Starrar on his property (which adjoined Waltz's) was based on the 1870 Census.

The more the merrier. There was a Peralta living on Andy Starrar's land as well.
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by Blue_Cricket »

Not to derail this, but I didn't want to start a new topic unless absolutely necessary. Does anyone know where there is a hematite concentration in the Superstition area? Gold can be found in a hematite matrix, and I think I have a clue where Walsh mentioned it.
i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i »

BC,

This report has been around since 1982. When you get to the site, do a search for hematite and you will find 13 citations:

http://mines.az.gov/DigitalLibrary/usbm ... 136-82.pdf

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

Post by Blue_Cricket »

Thank you! It is a tiny possibility, and when I saw I had made some mistakes, I was disappointed -- but still left wondering if anyone had also done a spectrography scan of the little matchbox later made from some of the raw ore. That might be more revealing.

Mostly my research has been catching up on what other people have ruled out. A lot of catching up to do!
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