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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:40 pm
Posts: 199
Brad,

I'm just catching up after months of being in the mountains, but - as a quick question - may I assume that you are part of the crew that has been combing the Supers this year near the old Bilbrey shaft?

Mrs.O


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:12 pm
Posts: 144
Brad W. wrote:
Homar,
He was born Jacob Walz in July of 1810 after his father, Johann Jacob Walz. His mother's name was Anna. Jacob Walz was a only child. My relation to Jacob Waltz starts in Württemberg, Germany on my mothers side of the family around same time, it's a tiny world. When Jacob Walz became a citizen he added the " t " to his last name. To this day we don't know why. I don't know of any nephew that could have been with him in that time frame. As far as I know the only records kept back then were by German Church's, they kept all the records of births & deaths. I have never seen a family tree, but that's a good idea. Thanks for the hope.

Brad W.


Thanks for sharing that with us Brad, again I hope that everything works out for you.

Homar


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:51 pm
Posts: 31
#1 The LDM isn't even close to Weavers Needle!

#2 The shaft is a little more than a 45 degree angle down. The upper entrance is on flat ground. there is a cut-toff shaft half way down the tributary canyon below. When you enter the cut-off shaft and get to the mine the the main shaft goes deep into the darkness.


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:28 am
Posts: 82
Hello ACTION14, I'm glad your posting information on your find.we wish you a safe journey on working it. Keep us posted,it will be exciting to read anything you share.
Take Care
TOM


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:43 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:42 am
Posts: 83
Hi, Action 14,
That sounds more like the traditional description of Waltz's mine we have from Julia and Reiney and John Reed. Maybe Brad has found a different working?
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:52 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:00 am
Posts: 36
Mrs. O,
I think you might be talking about the old Miller Mines? They 're two old mine shafts there that are surrounded by some thick brush, and about 20-30 feet deep or possibly even deeper than that. Doe's this sound correct ? I'm not part of any crew, I hike alone.

Brad W.


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:42 am
Posts: 83
Hi, Brad,
Thanks for the tip on the knees. Never heard of that one before. I was aware of the ph issue. Some years ago a very good friend was diagnosed with cancer and I spent weeks researching alternative natural treatments. I came up with the ph connection as well as many other things. Thankfully she is ok now.
I understand you can reach the mine from any direction, but there must be one or two points from which it's closer/easier to get there. I was just wondering what your preferred starting point is, if that isn't asking for too much info.
By the way, my interest in the mine is purely from a historical perspective, as it is one of the great lost treasure mysteries. I would love to believe that the mine does indeed exist. Over the years there have been so many varying descriptions of the ldm that it seems as if there might be two or three different mines that have been found and lost again, rather than just one. I'm kind of trying to match your description of your mine with others that have been talked about over the years to see how or if they tally. As you said yourself, there was more than one mine worked by the Peralta's in the Supers. By the way, can you shed any light on Jacob Waltz's last days? Are you aware of the controversy about the candle box of gold under his bed at Julia Thomas's and the fact that Dick Holmes claimed Waltz told him to take it and tried to tell him how to find the mine?
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:42 am
Posts: 83
Brad,
Can you tell us how the mine was concealed when you first found it? Also, Waltz said he had made two caches of gold near the mine, that he had taken one out, but that the other one was still there. He also said you couldn't find the caches without finding the mine. That one is a little had to understand because he also said that he had covered the entrance so well that you could drive a pack train over it and not know it was there. Any thoughts on the cache? What about the tailings from all that material that was removed? How were they hidden?
Do you believe Waltz ever killed anyone to get or keep the mine?
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:00 am
Posts: 36
Bob,
Your welcome on the knee tip. I would rather go in from any direction other than the north. It's a tough hike from the north. The Peralta family had numerous mines in the Superstition Mountains, I would say they had eight mines there. I can tell you the inside the mine it is 47 feet long, and could be expanded beyond that. I have no knowledge about what the last days were for Jacob Waltz, just what I have read. What I was told that he had 232 ounces of gold in a candle box under his death bed, and Dick Holmes ended up with the gold.
The way the mine was covered up most of taken a long time. A very slow process indeed. He didn't only cover the portal, he covered a big area. When I dug it up the first time. At seven feet down I ran into six ironwood logs that looked brand new. It was like the mine was buried the day before I got there, except for the dirt & rock was time consuming to pick through. I was told he had three cache's in the Supertition Mountains, and one of those was under his death bed, so the other two cache's may still be waiting. I heard one of the cache's was very big, he just kept adding to it over the years. So it must be a safe place in his mind. He wouldn't have to travel that far if he had some sort of trouble. Say maybe half way between the mine & Phoenix. All of the tailings that were pulled out by the Peralta's. Miguel Peralta the miner was at least one hundred years ahead of his time. What he did with the tailings, was pure genius. I never would have thought of that myself, but I'm no miner. I can't say how he hid the tailings. Do I believe Jacob Waltz ever killed anyone to get or keep the mine ? Yes, I would think he killed every person that ever came close to the mine. Or, if they tryed following him on his path to the mine, he probably waited for them in turn up ahead and it was another shallow hole to dig. I would think if Jacob Waltz found any person at his mine that person was fair game. In Jacob Waltz mind, he dreamed & looked all of his life for a gold mine like this, (the mother lode) and nothing was going to take it from him. I think that's why he never filed a claim on it, because this. I think Jacob Waltz feared the Apache Indian's that's why he had the three caches. Jacob Waltz had to be right every time he traveled to the mine, what I mean is, if he was ever followed to the mine, he would have lost the mine and his life all at the same time. I would have to say Jacob Waltz was very clever. When Miguel Peralta left the mine, and Jacob Waltz took over as proprietor. The only job for Jacob Waltz to do was mine gold and protect the mine from interlopers. He had a full time job from the middle of October through up to the middle of May keeping a eye on his enterprise. Jacob Waltz probably looked forward to the summer time, he could relax some what. One more thought on the cache's. I would imagine the gold sits in saddle bags in a hole somewhere. Probably weighing in at 35-45 pounds per bag. That would be the best way to be carried, the standard color for a saddle bag was brown back then, and that would blend in well in the area. One bag might be worth today around $ 400 K.

Brad W.


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 Post subject: Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:28 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:02 am
Posts: 23
So wait you dug a 7 foot deep hole in the Supes in a protected and highly traveled area and no one said anything? Lol


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