THE "MERCURY MINE"

Moderator: Jim_b

Jim Hatt

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by Jim Hatt » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:27 pm

I've been thinking a lot about that Javaone!

To my knowledge, there is not a lot of whetstone in the superstitions. It is strange that there just happens to be a mine in the area too. Eventually someone will join the forums that knows the history of the "Whetstone Mine" and give us more details about it.

Jim

somehiker
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:51 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by somehiker » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:28 pm

Hi Jim:
Not much for a first post,but Spanish Colonial beds usually featured a covering of oxhide,over a minimal amount of padding.The same piece of furniture often did double duty as a dining table.Oxhide is quite thick and tough stuff.Perhaps the miners were responsible after all and slept in there,using oxhide as a cover for the leafy mat.If this be the case,the leaves should show some evidence of having been cut with a knife or machete.Another possibility is that the material was harvested and placed within to dry out,with the intent of later burning it in order to crack the rock.Looks like an interesting find,especially with mercury present.

Regards:SH

Jim Hatt

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:31 pm

It is a very puzzling place SH. The thickest layer of vegetation was way back in by the end of the tunnel, although there was a little to be found everywhere, if you dug down a few inches to a foot. Many years ago, I read a story about a mine that was covered by Apaches. The story said they threw in boulders, which they covered with layers of vegetation. Then they spread dirt and rocks over it to make it look natural. That was the first thing I thought of when I found the vegetational in that old mine, but I have never been able to find that story again.

When I posted this story, I was hoping someone would read it, recall that same story, and hopefully remember where they read it. Some day, it may still happen. It would be nice to link this old mine with a particular legend. The only way it fits the LDM legend, is that the setting sun does shine into it. Nothing else fits.

Jim

P.S. Welcome to the DUSA Forums SH!


somehiker
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:51 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by somehiker » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:14 pm

Thanks for havin me aboard,Jim:
I am truly impressed by the caliber of discourse within this forum as well as your own welcome efforts to keep both the focus of each topic and the civility of each writer under control.I have had the chance now,to read almost all of the posts for each topic and have found the theories expressed both informative and thought provoking.I hope,that as time progresses,and the search continues,that I will be able to offer as much to the forum as yourself and the other members have thus far.
I'm not really convinced that the stories told of the Apache/Yavapai having filled in the mines is true.The reason that has been given for hiding the mines,to keep the miners out and frustrate their efforts,does not sit well with my understanding of the timelines and the lifestyle of the Yavapai.It seems to me that,having a taste for mule and horseflesh,them folks would have preferred home delivery rather than hiking ten or twenty miles into town for fast food.There is also the advantage of fighting the enemy on your own turf that may have been in the strategy as well.Hiding the mines would have made it necessary to erase any trails or markers leading to them and I don't believe that this has been mentioned in those accounts,which makes me suspicious.I really do suspect that any mines or shafts that were filled,were probably concealed by the miners themselves,as Waltz claimed to have done with his pit.
It's always a thrill to find an old mine out there,especially if it fits some of the clues of the LDM.Even when it seems unlikely that it is anything more than a barren prospect of more modern origin,it is still interesting to tackle the who,what,and when involved.Something odd,such as the layer of vegetation,only makes it more so.

Regards:SH.

Jim Hatt

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:03 pm

You make some very good points SH. I fully agree with every one of them. I can tell you have spent some time "Walking the Walk", and sat upon a few boulders, putting yourself in "their" places (Both Apache and Mexican Miners) with "their" agenda in mind, as you pondered what you would have done under their circumstances.

As the legends go, it does not seem that the Apaches (of the 1800's anyway) ever stayed in one place for very long, or engaged in much physical labor that did not provide something towards fulfilling their immediate needs. The way Apache Jack told his story makes it more believable, when he said the women and children covered the mines (working for 3 moons) while the Braves made mescal. Still, that was a huge expenditure of time and energy, that it seems like, could have been put to better use at the time.

There is a permanent source of water near this mine, the whetstone where drilling implements were sharpened, and a lot of work had been done making a trail that made it easier for pack animals to cross over a number of ravines. None of this of course sounds like the work or Native Americans (Apaches).

I have not been able to twist, turn or even stretch, any known lost mine map, to fit this area, so it is hard for me to justify committing much time or energy to. Yet... I have never seen so much evidence of a sustained mining project, anywhere else in the Superstitions, so I can't just forget about it either.

Like you said "It's always a thrill to find an old mine out there". Even though I have no delusion about it being the "Dutchman". It is nice to find stuff like that, which supports the idea of some major mining operations having been conducted out there a looong time ago.

Glad you are enjoying the forums here. We move a little slower than some of the other Treasure Hunting forums, but I strive to keep the discussions always moving forward, without distractions that defeat the whole purpose of being here in the first place.

A number of people have gotten out, and found some interesting things, because of stories I have posted here. Some of them I had completely overlooked when I was in the areas! Think I can talk them into posting their stories? Not! LOL

Oh well... I understand, and I am sure you do too. It's those little "hard earned Secrets" that keep a person's hopes up, and his spirits high, when the trail get's tough.

Thanks for your input,

Jim


somehiker
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:51 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by somehiker » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:48 pm

It is refreshing to have a place where we the few can mingle,swap tales and trivia and generally "talk dirty" about the history of what must have been a period of extremely intense, as well as highly productive mining out there.Here,we can freely discuss the evidence that gives testimony to the validity of the Stone Maps,and their creators,without the various switch-bearing Jesuit deniers and fraud-boosting flag stompers creating unnecessary distractions.As much as I do enjoy the occasional opportunity to expose the comedic side of my imagination in reply to such party poopers and found-its,I generally prefer to remain on the more serious fork of the trail.
I wonder if the "whetstone" area in your photos may have been used as a sentry position.
It could be that the sentries were given the dull drill shafts and the task of sharpening them while they watched over the miners across the canyon.Could be that some of the grooves were made by re-edging picks and other implements as well.A search of the surrounding area might even turn up a cache of these tools.These could even be concealed by that vegitation layer.I would think that caching tools would have been a common practice,thus saving room for more ore on the way out.Might even be that the X's along the Stone Map trail indicate such hiding places.

Regards:SH.

Jim Hatt

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:32 pm

Again... I am getting the feeling that you have been reading my personal notes SH. :shock:

I currently have a White TM-808 Double Box, Deep Seeking Metal Detector, on loan from a personal friend. I have been entertaining the idea of running it around the area of the whetstone cave, and in the mine tunnel itself.

The search for Jesse Capen has been absorbing all of my trail time lately, but sooner or later I will get back to the things I have on hold right now.

Jim

somehiker
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:51 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by somehiker » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:27 am

Although I have never used a metal detector myself,I would love to sweep a couple areas out there myself.One is a hilltop that has a small mound of gravel with three radiating pathways of the same gravel that match perfectly the odd looking symbol at the bottom of what is called the "Waltz Map".

Image

For the other area, a "deep seeking" MD might be necessary.

Regards:SH

marks231
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:29 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by marks231 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:03 am

Morning Jim, I was thinking about that floor in the 'Mercury Mine', Do you think if that legend is true that there could be a vertical shaft covered up and waiting for enough weight to cause a collapse?

Mark

Jim Hatt

Re: THE "MERCURY MINE"

Post by Jim Hatt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:53 pm

SH,

I am not sure which map you are calling the "Waltz map". There are a number of different maps in different books and on the Internet that people claim are "Waltz maps". Could you post a photo of the one you are referring to?

Jim



Mark,

I have a feeling that there is some kind of void beneath the floor of the Mercury Mine. Judging by the amount of tailings streaming down the mountainside below the mine, there is enough to fill the mine itself many times over. Too small a whole for the amount of material taken out, if you know what I mean.

The floor of the mine feels good and solid. If it was bulk-headed and back-filled. Who ever did it, did a real good job, and the layer of vegetation kept the loose dirt, from working it's way down through the bulk-head.

Jim

Post Reply