BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

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Jim Hatt

BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:49 pm

This article appeared in the May 1945 issue of Desert Magazine. As many will see, Storm did not tell everything in this article the same way he told it in Thunder God’s Gold published the same year.

Even more curious, is how close some of the information tracks along with the Holmes Manuscript in a couple of cases. (With different names for what appears to be the same stories) ;)

Did Storm get information from Brownie and modify it for this article? :o

Or... Did brownie take information from this article and modify it for use in the Holmes Manuscript? (Which surfaced about 3 years later)
:shock:

Or... Is there another possible explanation for the similarities? Like maybe an unidentified third party that both Brownie and Barry knew? :?

This article really has me stumped about where Storm got his information from? There are too many "way out there" things for it to have come from Julia or Rhiney. Although it does track somewhat, with Ely's account of what they told him, there are many differences.

It is doubtful that Storm ever had an opportunity to talk to Bark or Ely, or that Tex Barkley would have told him anything. It IS close enough to what is in Ely's version (from Julia and Rhiney) that Storm couldn't have just pulled it all out of his imagination.

Who could Storm have gotten this version of the story from? Herman maybe? If so, it is a far cry from what he told everyone else!

Could there possibly some valid clues in here that were left out of Ely's book? :? That one possibility, in my opinion makes it worth going through with a fine toothed comb, and examining it from all angles. The "Lighthouse" way!

Something else I picked up on... There are clues in this article, that I do not remember reading in any other published material except The Sterling Legend. Could Estee (Shirley) Conatser have used this article as the source for some of the clues in her book? (Some of the wording is almost identical) If so, why didn't she use all of them? :?

Last but not least... It is obvious that the writers of the movie Lust For Gold had read this article. The story line of the movie follows it a lot closer than it does with Thunder Gods Gold!


Mike (Lighthouse) Plug this stuff into your Enigma matrix, and see if you can squeeze out a clue to who Storm's source was for this information. Oren Arnold's Superstition's Gold 1934 maybe, or P.C. Bicknell's article - 1895? There is not a lot of published information that predate this article. I have not compared it to Trail of the Dutchman - 1939 yet. It may hold clues about who Storm had been getting information from.

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Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by roward » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:51 pm

Hi, Jim,
One thing that strikes me right away is the story of Julia and Rhiney. Ely says Julia had in effect "adopted" Rhiney and that he worked in her bakery/ice cream parlor. Storm is saying he worked with his father and brother in their own bakery. And according to Ely, the father and brother only come into the story after Waltz dies and Julia and rhiney send for them to help look for the mine. Also, according to Ely and Bark, Waltz was not a big drinker or carouser and was very subdued and quiet, almost melancholy. That doesn't square with Storm's description at all. But in this article I finally found the source of the "3 red hills" quote. If there is any new information in the story, my question would be how reliable it is given that so much else is a far cry from what we have come to accept as true from Ely and Bark. Storm's article just strikes me as sensationalism. Just my thoughts.
Bob

Jim Hatt

Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by Jim Hatt » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:51 pm

Hi Bob,

Yes, I agree. Storm seems to have been several steps removed from the primary characters, although he does appear to know who they all were, and a few scrambled facts about them.

Sensationalism was something Storm counted on to sell his books, but he did live off of what he made from them, and used whatever was left to finance his activities in the mountains, which were extensive.

He could have easily ran off with the money, and retired to a comfy easy chair, but he put it all back into the search, almost until the day he died.

Good to see you still have the hook in your mouth, and haven't lost interest. Wish I could manage to somehow get it out of mine! :lol:

Jim

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Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by lighthouse » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:45 am

Hello Jim and Roward:
Yes the May 1945 Storm magazine article is very interesting indeed!
I believe that Barry was initially drawn to the Superstitions by the Adolph Ruth story. Barry arrived around 1937 and undoubtedly interviewed everyone he could about the LDM. As this was some 46 years after the Dutchman died, in the interim, plenty of second hand guessing had entered the gossip mill. This is evident by all of the "vicinity" type clues he related, but obviously didn't verify. His overall lack of verification is plainly evident.

Barry stated that after the 19 Feb 1891 Phoenix flood, the Dutchman was taken to Julia's home and DIED there on 22 Feb 91. Barry never checked this out, for it was on 22 Feb that the Dutchman was taken to Julia's home, NOT when he died there on 25 Oct 91.

Ely,Bark, RJ and his son Brownie did search for the LDM, and I'm willing to bet that during casual conversations back then, mentioned items related to it. This in turn led to "interpretations" of what they said, further adding to the volume of "clues" that got passed around.

Another oddity is that Barry stated that it was Charles Clark that the Dutchman threatened to kill if he tried to follow him again. In the Holmes version it is RJ Holmes. It is possible that Brownie "adapted" the Clark story, but not the other way around.

All of the information pertaining to the adventures of the Dutchman had to have come from Julia, Rieney or RJ Holmes, but virtually little of it, in one form or another, shows up in the Ely, Bark, or Holmes material. After Julia ceased looking for the mine, it is alleged that she "sold" information/maps, and therefore could have been the original source, (later interpreted) for alot of what Barry repeated. If this is true, then virtually from square one, "made up" information was entering the legend.

What Barry's article proves that by the time he arrived on the scene, there was plenty of "gossip" type information being passed around, and that Barry (really having no choice), decided to accept it as factual. Unfortunately, later era LDM authors then utilized some of the material Barry presented, only further muddling the picture...... Lighthouse

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Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by stewed03064 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:18 am

hey jim i was just reading the last couple of posts on the forum gold when discovered and if its true what you guys were saying about jake hand picking the richest samples to be assayed now if we were to assume that when jake went to the mine to get gold for himself and had two burros to pack the ore out on would he not do the same with the two burros and only pack them with the richest ore if that is the case and it assayed so high then would two burros full of jakes best ore be worth more than $1500 if so how true is storms article?

Jim Hatt

Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:24 am

Hi Stew,

There are many variations in the story of Jacob Waltz, depending on who told it. Some say he had Burros, some say Mules, and some say he was on foot running from Apaches when he found the mine. He may have returned to it later with Burros or Mules. I don’t think anyone knows for sure.

It is doubtful that Waltz ever had any assays done on his ore. Assays tell a miner where to dig to obtain the richest ore on his claim. In the case of Waltz’s ore he could see that with his own eyes. He had no reason for having his ore assayed.

When he shipped his ore off to the smelter or the Mint, he would get a receipt for how many pounds of ore he shipped. Normally… Once it was processed and the gold removed, he would have been sent payment for the amount of gold recovered from the ore he shipped. Waltz’s ore was probably handled a little differently, as I will explain in detail below.

If he sold the gold locally, he would have had to crush the ore himself, extracted the gold, and sold it for cash or traded it for supplies based on the weight of just the gold itself.

Assays are only ESTIMATES of gold values in ore. Gold is not sold based on assay reports. It is sold based on how much gold has actually been extracted from the ore after it has been processed.

If an assay was ever done on any of Waltz’s ore, it was most likely done on pieces of the ore from the candle box after his death. It is likely that every piece of ore from the candle box would have been different, and resulted in a different amount of Ounces per Pound/Ton.

In my opinion, an assay would never have been done on any of the ore from the candle box. It was gold in quartz. That is called jewelry rock, and is worth many times the value of just the gold itself. To crush it and remove the gold, would have reduced its value too much just to satisfy one’s curiosity about its value in Ounces per Ton.

It is doubtful that even in the cases where Waltz shipped ore off, that it was crushed to remove the gold. Even at the smelter or the Mint, they would have recognized the value of the jewelry rock, estimated the value of the gold in it, Possibly through specific gravity (S/G) testing and paid Waltz based on that estimate, and then sold the ore to a Jeweler for many times that value.

If any assay reports do exist on Waltz’s ore, they were probably no more than visual estimates or based on S/G tests, then written up on an assay form, as if an actual assay had been done. There is nothing criminal or deceitful about that, since even the most formal and detailed assay reports are really only ESTIMATES of actual values present, in a specific part of an ore body anyway.

That is my 2 cents worth about assay reports on Dutchman’s ore.

Jim

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Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by oroblanco » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:09 pm

HOLA amigos,
Thank you Jim for posting the article, Barry sure does have a different take on many points of the stories surrounding Waltz and the mine.

The skeptics claim that no records exist of Waltz ever selling any gold, but the eyewitnesses tell a different story, that he was selling the ore directly to storekeepers in which case we are not likely to find any receipts.

Thanks again,
Roy

Jim Hatt

Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by Jim Hatt » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:48 pm

Hey Roy!

I don't think Storm ever got close to any of the primary characters in the LDM story. Certainly not as close as Bark and Ely did anyway.

When you have free gold nuggets in the quartz like Waltz had. (Ounces per pound) He didn't need no stinking assays to tell him what he had. :lol:

I'm sure the only thing on his mind as far as weight was concerned, was how heavy it was to pack up, and haul out of the mountains! We should be so lucky, to have those kind of worries huh? :D

Jim

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Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by oroblanco » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:15 pm

HOLA amigo Jim (and everyone)

I think you are right on the money. I only recently learned that Storm had been in contact with Erwin Ruth (by mail) starting in July of 1937, not sure of the date of his first search for the LDM but he was apparently more interested in trying to find the killers of Adolph Ruth at that time. I can easily understand how his interests changed.

You know only too well how it is with that danged LDM - Beth and I started out as gold prospectors just looking for gold, but the legend and the mountains somehow get you "hooked" and it is worse than smoking for trying to quit.
Roy

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Re: BARRY STORM ARTICLE IN DESERT MAGAZINE - MAY 1945

Post by East Wind » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:28 am

[quote="roward"
Waltz was not a big drinker or carouser and was very subdued and quiet, almost melancholy. That doesn't square with Storm's description at all. But in this article I finally found the source of the "3 red hills" quote. If there is any new information in the story, my question would be how reliable it is given that so much else is a far cry from what we have come to accept as true from Ely and Bark. Storm's article just strikes me as sensationalism. Just my thoughts.
Bob[/quote]


I agree with Bob, I would hate to think Waltz was a drunken killer. After reading stories about him I'm becoming fond of the man. Plus if he was a Mason he must of had some morals. I thought Wiser was Waltz's nephew, maybe his name sake,. How could he kill a family member. I never read a book about the Lost Dutchman.I have a lot to learn, Ive only read things off the net. There so many different stories how do you know witch one is true. I read some were Waltz had a Indian girl friend , I think her name is Ken Tee, who showed the two Jacobs were the mine was. And because she betrayed the Apache Indians they cut her tongue and killed her and Wiser. It said she died at a neighbors house. ( witch neighbor ?) Where did they find Wiser dead body? Some stories say Waltz left Wiser near the mine,some said he died at a ranch.( witch ranch?) was it the the Quarter Circle U ranch? Dose any one know this story? Back to storms story, He must have made Waltz a scandal to make his story interesting. That's just my opinion. Talking bout the red hills, I look a the Superstitions, they are all red! maybe some white spots ........inquiring Dee

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