WALTER PERRINE’S CAVE OF GOLD BARS

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Marius
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Re: WALTER PERRINE’S CAVE OF GOLD BARS

Post by Marius » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:57 am

alan

I believe , Apache and Pima are two different tribes and they had not very good relations . Maybe you meant if he was Apache from Pima County ?

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Re: WALTER PERRINE’S CAVE OF GOLD BARS

Post by alan m » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:07 pm

The Apache were not specifically a separate tribe, they were the renegades, those cast out of their original tribe of which they were born in, this of course was a long, long time ago. Thats why there are so many" different" Apache tribes today,
Many of the Apache legends are parallels to those of the Pima, Papago, cochise, etc.
You are correct that the Pima and the Apache were bitter enemies, it was the Pima who kept the Apache out of the Superstition's until the Spanish killed off many of the men and young boys in retaliation for the Pima uprising in 1751
After that, the Apache began moving into the mountains and staying near there, the trouble for the Spanish began in ernest then.
The Gold in the Superstitions was deposited before this event

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Re: WALTER PERRINE’S CAVE OF GOLD BARS

Post by somehiker » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:56 pm

Hi Alan:

When, or in what time frame, do you believe the gold was deposited in these places ?
By whom, and do you suspect there may be other items included as well ?

Regards:somehiker

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Re: WALTER PERRINE’S CAVE OF GOLD BARS

Post by alan m » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:01 pm

I came across an old map many years ago, not original, from the 1950's or so, depicting a lost wagon load of gold near the Sierra Pintas mountains, the wagon was heading north, there is no water for five days from where the wagon must have left, the map also depicted various missons burning and a date of 1751.
This was just a map showing details of a lost gold story found in " Dead Padres, pimas and gold"
Point is, the King had a system for taking his royaL,fifth, it was claimed at the mine by tax men and taken to a secrt place , the superstition mountains, there are many tunnels in there, gold has been depositied there since before Kino's time.

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Re: WALTER PERRINE’S CAVE OF GOLD BARS

Post by somehiker » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:33 pm

Interesting Alan, but why would the King store his own gold where it would be difficult and time consuming to retrieve if he needed it for something ? Also, it doesn't sound as though the wagon of gold was lost, when it was in fact bound for the King's own secret storage place.
It seems as though you've bought into the idea that the five dots and lines (crown) as described has something to do with the Spanish Crown's method of tax (quinto) accounting. These were the only markings said to be on the bullion found in the Brady and France caves and we have no description of any markings on the ones in the Perrine cave, yet bullion recovered from early colonial shipwrecks have many more important markings on them.
see....http://www.sedwickcoins.com/articles/atocha2.htm for reference to examples of what they were and what they meant.This leads me to believe that these bars, if they do exist, were not related to any official mining operation.

Regards:somehiker

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Re: WALTER PERRINE’S CAVE OF GOLD BARS

Post by alan m » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:09 pm

There is a very good book to read if you ever are lucky enough to find a copy, published by the smithsonian, translated from the original Spanish, its titled, " a decription of the west indies by antonio vasques de espinoza" dated 1620, abebooks may have a copy
It clearly states that the level of theft by the kings officials was epidemic, my words, not his,
The king could not trust but a few loyal people
As for the bars of gold, I am not familiar with any of the alleged markings
As for the wagon load of gold, the story is clear that it was lost due to the pima indian raids, the intersting part is, why was it heading north ? This map of which I am referring also depicted the main trails from the mines in the Babaquivita mountains, known to have produced a lot of gold.
It has been speculated that the gold discovered at Victorio Peak by doc Noss was another "vault"
Another book which sheds light on this subject is titled, " before the rebellion, the letters of jacobo sedelmayer, SJ.
He writes about how the king thwarted the Jesuit attempts to reach the indians on the colorado river north of the Gila, you must ask why would the king not want anyone to travel north of the Gila ?

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