Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

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Jim Hatt

Re: Debating the Peralta Stone Maps with Mike Chabak

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:14 am

No problem Paul, I didn't think your post was snooty at all.

I also had hopes that the book Gene Reynolds claimed to have seen would be found, and would bring forth some new information. Perhaps someday it still will. Since it hasn't as of yet, and doesn't look like there is much chance that it ever will, it is kind of a dead end street.

Jim Hatt

Re: Debating the Peralta Stone Maps with Mike Chabak

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:41 pm

cubfan64 wrote:Lighthouse, you said...
Is it a TEAM effort to solve the mystery?
Like it or not, treasure hunting in general and LDM searching specifically is mostly a "solitary" venture. When I first got really interested enough in this subject to join a group of folks near the mountains a few years ago, my original thought was that they got together to share information etc... It was a great get together and I got to meet some really good people who've I've become friends with, BUT I quickly realized everyone has their secrets they may share with close friends (at least those close to them at any given time), but everyone has their own secrets they don't share with anyone.

Does that help anyone discover and locate the mine? Absolutely not, but it's just the way it is. In most respects I don't think it even has much to do with the actual potential wealth of locating it (or any other cache). It's more a matter of proving to yourself and to others that YOU ALONE were able to finally solve the mystery and that your theories and years of research were the right ones all along.

Call it ego if you will I suppose, but I don't consider myself to be egotistical at all, but I have some secrets of my own from just the short trips I've taken out there.

I think a big part of forums like these are to just discuss the history surrounding the legends, exchange theories and hope beyond hope that someone drops some speck of information that leads to an "aha" moment that meshes with years of research to provide that last clue to solving the puzzle.

Paul

Paul,

I have had to do some house cleaning here this evening and delete some posts (including some of my own responses to them) because the discussion was sliding down into emotional outbursts and personal attacks, instead of simple differences of opinion about the issues. So I am not sure at this point if the post you were responding to still exists. I also edited a few posts to remove some names of people that were not necessary to getting the intent of the messages across. Lastly I renamed the topic to make it less personalized. (Moderating this forum is turning into more of a full time job than I ever imagined it would).

I think you have pretty well hit the nail right on the head. Lost Dutchman get togethers have been going on for decades. They never resulted in any kind of combined effort, to unite and go hunting for the Dutchman or anything else, using everything everyone knew.

More often than not, they resulted in more arguments, and hard feelings than anything else. The same thing can be seen in all the online forums all over the Internet. In days of old, it was often the person who was most interested in finding out what everyone else's "secrets" were that organized and promoted the LDM get togethers, and preached the "Unite and Conquer" routine. It has always been the solitary searcher, that has learned the most about what actually exists in the mountains, and he has always guarded that information jealously. They do not advertise for partners, and they do not respond to those who do.

re: Mikes quesation, "Is it a TEAM effort to solve the mystery"?

These forums are not intended to organize any kind of team effort to search for anything. Everyone's search is his own business. Anything he wishes to share about his experiences is appreciated, and anything he wishes to keep private is respected.

The desertusa website is not a dedicated Treasure Hunting Website. It is a website for people who like exploring the desert, spending time in the outdoors, and sharing their stories with people who have similar interests. "Desert talk" just about always drifts into the subject of lost mines and buried treasures. Therefore it makes sense that there should be a section of the forums to discuss those subjects.

When I started this LDM forum, I opened it with about a dozen stories about my own experiences in the Desert Mountains while searching for the LDM and working with the PSM's. The stories are focused more on the desert, it's beauty, it's unforgiving ruggedness, it's wildlife and it's solitude, than they are on the search for anything. Sometimes a person's experiences in the mountains are far more rewarding than finding any gold would be.

Some people do not understand that and never will. They want to see nothing posted other than something that will put them one step closer to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I do not expect anyone to ever come into these forums, and tell the whole world anything, about anything they have seen in the mountains, that may apply to the location of something valuable, and I sure hope they do not expect me to!

I have shared some things about what I have learned about the stone maps that may someday put someone on the right track to solving them, but they will have to be a lot smarter than I am, or a lot luckier than I have been, to walk away with any gold using that information, because so far, my gold pouch is still as empty as everyone else's is.

There are people who cannot discuss lost mines and buried treasure with getting all hot-headed about it. When things start heading in that direction, I start deleting posts. If that does not solve the problem, I start "deleting" the people that make those kind of posts.

Anyone that comes here looking for the one clue, that will lead them to the LDM will be sadly disappointed, and probably go away mad because they did not find it here. But if they come here to learn about the history of the LDM and PSM's, and read about other people's experiences chasing those legends, they may be pleased with what they find here.

Anyone that comes here looking for a place to vent their frustrations, over not having anything to show for the time and effort they have invested in the search, is going to find it a difficult place to meet their purpose. I am not investing my time here to sit and listen to people whine and complain, and i don't think anyone else likes it either.

I have seen some things in the mountains that have convinced me that the Stone Maps are authentic, and that all 7 pieces are required to solve them. I stand by that belief, and defend the stone maps against anyone that attacks their authenticity. I hope the day will come, when I finally crunch the right numbers, stand in the right place, and am able to prove what I believe to everyone's satisfaction. But if not, Like I said... Maybe someone will take my work a step or two further, and do it long after I am gone.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and is welcome to express them here, as long as they do not resort to personal attacks on anyone that disagrees with them.

I appreciate members like yourself, that try to stay on the "High Road" and ignore those who do not.

Jim Hatt

Jim Hatt

Re: Debating the Peralta Stone Maps with Mike Chabak

Post by Jim Hatt » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:22 am

cubfan64 wrote: Does that help anyone discover and locate the mine? Absolutely not, but it's just the way it is. In most respects I don't think it even has much to do with the actual potential wealth of locating it (or any other cache). It's more a matter of proving to yourself and to others that YOU ALONE were able to finally solve the mystery and that your theories and years of research were the right ones all along.

Paul
Good Morning Paul, and happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

I was just reviewing the discussion, and my "clean-up" work last evening to see if I missed anything, and got interested a part of your post that I hadn't really focused on before.

I cannot speak for everyone, because I have never even met the majority of the Dutch-Hunters out there and I have no idea about what their driving force is. I have to admit that during my first trip into the mountains, my imagination was working overtime, with thoughts about the GOLD, what I would do with it, if I found it, and that was my driving force.

Somewhere along the line (too long ago to even remember now) Reality set in and I began to understand the odds against me ever passing my eyes over the Dutchman's Gold still shinning in the vein where it was formed. The original driving force that had drawn me to the mountains faded, and was replaced with the "Thrill of the Search" and the desire to succeed, where everyone else had failed.

Still speaking only for myself, and at this late date. If I were to find the mine tomorrow, there is no way I could ever take credit for being the "ONE" who was able to finally solve the mystery, via my own theories, research and field work. That credit would have to be shared with many people who came before me, took me into their confidence, and steered me towards things they believed were important. Some of those things they had found themselves, and some of them came from people, who left their footprints on the trail long before I was even born.

There may be some who, if they found it, could claim a "Solo" victory, but I never could.

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:28 pm

I think that if any one of us were to solve the enigma of the stones,we would have to,at the least,acknowledge the efforts of those who may have contributed in any way to our successful analysis.I know for a fact that Paul,as an example,would have to.After all,I have given him a little prod in the right direction.Come to think of it,I have given him a little push in all four cardinal directions,so I guess I've covered my butt in that respect....... ;)
Although I did,until recently,suspect that there was some merit in the theory that Ted DeGrazia may have added a stone to the mix,I now am certain that those suspicions are unfounded and that furthermore the Priest/Horse stone will,eventually,be positively linked to the Map Stones as well as the Latin Heart.
Personally,I have arrived at the conclusion that the Stone Maps are Jesuit in origin.That they were actually lost in transit to,not from the Superstitions,just prior to the expulsion of the order.I secondly believe that all paper records that would have lead the crown to the location were destroyed at this time.In addition,I suspect that the actual directions to the site as well as the intended positioning of the stones within the range were entrusted to the memories of those who perished during the expulsion.In the end,with all these strokes of bad luck,the Jesuits were and are left with only that which the rest of us have,a set of maps with no definable codes nor easily discernible beginning or end.That,and the knowledge that they do,in fact apply to a hidden cache of Jesuit wealth within this particular range of mountains.I'll wager that they would love to have it back.

Regards:SH.

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:00 pm

somehiker wrote:In the end,with all these strokes of bad luck,the Jesuits were and are left with only that which the rest of us have,a set of maps with no definable codes nor easily discernible beginning or end.That,and the knowledge that they do,in fact apply to a hidden cache of Jesuit wealth within this particular range of mountains.I'll wager that they would love to have it back.

Regards:SH.

SH,

Have you seen the photo of the twp Priests standing at First Water Trailhead, looking off into the distance at Weaver's Needle? http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... 7&start=10

Fits right in with your train of thought! (and mine)

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:16 am

Good Morning Jim:
Yes,I have,and noted as well what appears,on the surface,to be a more recent increase of Jesuit interest in this controversial chapter of their history.It may be unfounded conjecture on my part but it does seem to me that we seem to be witnessing more of these "slips of the (tongue)" than we did during Polzer's tenure.The Loyola College series,supposedly in production since 2006,and featured on their website specifically includes,in one episode, the Superstitions as the location of one of the "Hidden Treasures of the Jesuits".Why?

Regards:SH
W.Spencer

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:28 am

somehiker wrote:The Loyola College series, supposedly in production since 2006, and featured on their website specifically includes, in one episode, the Superstitions as the location of one of the "Hidden Treasures of the Jesuits".Why?

Regards:SH
W.Spencer

Mornin' SH,

WOW! I like the sound of that! Can you post a link to the website where that is posted?

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:52 pm

Here ya go:
http://www.LoyolaProductions.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_z7Nw62CzE

The "Ghost Miners of the Superstitions" episode is listed at the 2:19-2:20 mark......

I'd love to get a script to have a look at.

Regards:SH

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by djui5 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:48 am

I think they might have been referring to this mountain:

http://californiamaps.org/place.php?cou ... n+Mountain

The map in their youtube video showed Cali, not Arizona.

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:40 pm

djui5 wrote:I think they might have been referring to this mountain:

http://californiamaps.org/place.php?cou ... n+Mountain

The map in their youtube video showed Cali, not Arizona.
Hi Randy:
I missed that.
Are there legends of Jesuit Treasures and ghost miners in that area?
That would be good.......means they are not "on" to us!! ;)
Regards:SH.

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