Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

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babymick1
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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by babymick1 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:55 pm

i-tsari-tsu-i wrote:Mike,


After all this time, I do tend to agree with the folks at the Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum. Like all of the other experts who have ever seen, had the time, knowledge and equipment to examine them
they have all agreed they were fakes......as far as I know.

The latest revelations from Garry seal the deal for me. Others will have another opinion, and that's just fine.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,
I fully agree with that, the maps they study are fakes cause they'll never get to see or study the real ones.

Babymick1

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:10 pm

babymick1 wrote:
i-tsari-tsu-i wrote:Mike,


After all this time, I do tend to agree with the folks at the Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum. Like all of the other experts who have ever seen, had the time, knowledge and equipment to examine them
they have all agreed they were fakes......as far as I know.

The latest revelations from Garry seal the deal for me. Others will have another opinion, and that's just fine.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,
I fully agree with that, the maps they study are fakes cause they'll never get to see or study the real ones.

Babymick1
Babymick,

Most of the conclusions, including mine, are not based on the authenticity of the stones being original. In that respect, I came to the conclusion that the stones that were pictured on the bumper, were not the same as those we have all seen.
Believe I mentioned that many times:
______________________________

Joe Ribaudo
08-07-2008, 04:46 PM
AV,

Welome to the fray.......

It's difficult for me to reconcile the original images of the Stone Maps with what we see today. I understand we are talking better equipment, but they just don't seem like the same maps.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj26 ... G_1341.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj26 ... G_1343.jpg

Little doubt it could just be the technology, so I could be wrong.

Joe Ribaudo

___________________

In all of my descriptive posts, I went with what is available to the general public today. The 8X10 photograph that I have of the stones on the bumper, came from Dr. Glover. As I recall, he got the negative from which he made that copy, from Gene Davis. IMHO, it's as good as it gets.

One of the things that gives a great deal of weight to my own conclusion, IMHO, is the 1866 Military Map that Dr. Glover shows on page 319 of his first book. That map shows the trail turning west, just to the north of Weaver's Needle, labeled "Picacho" crossing East Boulder, and then going through Little Boulder passing down into Boulder Canyon before turning north.

I have posted pictures of that trail, worn into the bedrock in places, and leading directly to the heart that I have also posted pictures of.

The Heart:
Image

Trail to the heart:
Image

No doubt Wayne would just say it's all Mother Nature's work. Probably say the same thing about the 1866 Military Map. :lol:

Good luck,

Joe
Last edited by i-tsari-tsu-i on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by babymick1 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:34 pm

Joe
I Respect your work and all the time spent on the trail. Drinking warm water in the shade waiting out the midday sun SUCKS. But that heart is not the one you should have been looking for. If you figure out the true meaning of the big knife or dagger you,ll solve the maps. But like I said to Silent Hunter my name will be the last attached to the stone maps. "THE UNDISPUTED CHAMP"

And it'll be my pictures hanging in the meuseum next to the stone maps and Mr Scott Wood will be eating alittle crow while everyone else will be served deep fried chicken. hum hum good!

Then on to the next big treasure puzzle, if God or {Gollum} permitts.
He one big dude!

Babymick1

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:51 pm

babymick1 wrote:Joe
I Respect your work and all the time spent on the trail. Drinking warm water in the shade waiting out the midday sun SUCKS. But that heart is not the one you should have been looking for. If you figure out the true meaning of the big knife or dagger you,ll solve the maps. But like I said to Silent Hunter my name will be the last attached to the stone maps. "THE UNDISPUTED CHAMP"

And it'll be my pictures hanging in the meuseum next to the stone maps and Mr Scott Wood will be eating alittle crow while everyone else will be served deep fried chicken. hum hum good!

Then on to the next big treasure puzzle, if God or {Gollum} permitts.
He one big dude!

Babymick1
Babymick,

Wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard that. It's always been empty talk with nothing to show. Not saying you don't have the answer, just saying that talk is cheap. Scott don't eat crow much, and he's been around a very long time.
He's forgotten more than most will ever learn about those mountains.

I got a hundred dollar bill that says you won't ever get him to eat crow with your Stone Map conclusion.

Good luck,

Joe

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by babymick1 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:58 pm

Joe
I,ll take that bet and I,m gonna hold you to it!

Take care Babymick1

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:33 pm

Joe:

"As I recall, he got the negative from which he made that copy, from Gene Davis. IMHO, it's as good as it gets."

It may be a small point,but if Dr. Glover's copy was taken from a "negative",that would have been a negative of a photo of the original (damaged) "bumper photo". It could not have been re-printed from a damaged negative....ie: the original negative.

"No doubt Wayne would just say it's all Mother Nature's work. Probably say the same thing about the 1866 Military Map. :lol: "

Not the map. :roll:
Or the trail in your photograph,which appears too wide to be an animal trail....thus it's inclusion on the 1866 map.
I'm sure it wasn't the army that wore that particular trail down to bedrock in places. It was probably the same folks who left their marks in Hieroglyphic Canyon and elsewhere throughout the range.And had lived there for centuries.
But there are many trails shown on that map,none of which...IMO...are the "dotted trail" indicated on the Map Stones. That "trail" is one which only the maker of the Map Stones would have known,and was never "well worn". Or designated with markers of any kind.
Other than at the beginning,I've found.And perhaps the end.
But it will be dangerous,I suspect.

Regards:Wayne

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by gollum » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:37 pm

babymick1 wrote:Mike,

I never said I was her son, I said I called her mom. So I never outted myself and right now I,m in Golden Valley AZ not far from Cali, Your neck of the woods. Now lets talk about important stuff. You got in a fight with the Fabulous freebirds, Awesome: Dad used to take us to All Star Wrestleing at Jamestown high school and I met all the greats, the Crusher, the Claw, Mad dog va-shawn, Dusty Rhoads, Scrap Iron kadasski and Vernon Gaugya and his son greg and the four horse men and the great Ric Flair and Audrea the giant what a hugh dude he was. This is where it all started.

Now to prove the stone maps you held where fakes,Plus the one,s at goldfield and the ones in the meuseum and the ones in ron feldmans office. The maps on the bumper of the car are the real ones. Down load the picture then zoom in on where the trail begins the arrow won,t be thier, it will be a 2 in its place. 231 triangle-lation.

That was you holding the h/p stone I thought it was some Ape arms. HaHaHa
And it was"nt me who felt thier trust was offened but I said I would talk to ya about it. "Travis found the maps like he said"

Babymick1
Okaaaaay,

So, you are not her son, but you know her well enough to call her Mom. No problem. If you know her that well, you can still answer my two questions.

Where is your smack talking now? Joe just openly stated that he thinks Travis' Story of how he found the stone maps was "pure fiction." For that to be true, then Travis was lying! Where's all that indignation you had last night?

As long as I can remember, it has been Joe's contention that Ted De Grazia had something to do with the making of the maps. Joe believes that the maps are accurate representations of the Superstition Mountains, but were not created hundreds of years ago to show the way to a treasure.

Joe,

Based on how long I know you have been doing this, and with what I can see with my eyes, I have always put great stock in your conclusion. I just don't happen to agree with it. HAHAHA

Best - Mike

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by babymick1 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:03 pm

Mike

Joe's statement was his own, based apoun his own research. Your statement inclued what they thought was just between you and them. Broken trust thing I suppose. Now Mike based on your post I've always put alot of stock in in your conclusion and I happened to agree. But Travis did not play or break the heart stone when he was a kid, he broke the heart stone when he blew it off his car with that darn power washer in AJ.

And know I will Not talk about the family or where they live. TRUST

Mike Now I,ve been in mineing and treasure hunting most of my 50 years. So I,ll ask you in your best, Those stones in silent hunters post look to me to be tumbled stones found only in river beds or rock shops and the plywood thier on contain all the coulors of a painters pallet, something just not right there. Roc2rol your a rock dude what do you think of them.

WEll, Mike its been alot of fun I,ll see ya a round from time I suppose

Babymick1

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:34 pm

gollum wrote:
babymick1 wrote:Mike,

I never said I was her son, I said I called her mom. So I never outted myself and right now I,m in Golden Valley AZ not far from Cali, Your neck of the woods. Now lets talk about important stuff. You got in a fight with the Fabulous freebirds, Awesome: Dad used to take us to All Star Wrestleing at Jamestown high school and I met all the greats, the Crusher, the Claw, Mad dog va-shawn, Dusty Rhoads, Scrap Iron kadasski and Vernon Gaugya and his son greg and the four horse men and the great Ric Flair and Audrea the giant what a hugh dude he was. This is where it all started.

Now to prove the stone maps you held where fakes,Plus the one,s at goldfield and the ones in the meuseum and the ones in ron feldmans office. The maps on the bumper of the car are the real ones. Down load the picture then zoom in on where the trail begins the arrow won,t be thier, it will be a 2 in its place. 231 triangle-lation.

That was you holding the h/p stone I thought it was some Ape arms. HaHaHa
And it was"nt me who felt thier trust was offened but I said I would talk to ya about it. "Travis found the maps like he said"

Babymick1
Okaaaaay,

So, you are not her son, but you know her well enough to call her Mom. No problem. If you know her that well, you can still answer my two questions.

Where is your smack talking now? Joe just openly stated that he thinks Travis' Story of how he found the stone maps was "pure fiction." For that to be true, then Travis was lying! Where's all that indignation you had last night?

As long as I can remember, it has been Joe's contention that Ted De Grazia had something to do with the making of the maps. Joe believes that the maps are accurate representations of the Superstition Mountains, but were not created hundreds of years ago to show the way to a treasure.

Joe,

Based on how long I know you have been doing this, and with what I can see with my eyes, I have always put great stock in your conclusion. I just don't happen to agree with it. HAHAHA

Best - Mike
Mike,

Might as well make it clear what I have always suspected about the Stone Maps.

I have always told my partners that it was possible that the map were a hoax, but that they did lead to a specific place in the mountains. IMHO, anyone who can't see that they are an accurate map of the western portion of the Supe's, simply can't read a topographic map. If someone has a better match, I would love to see it.

I believe that the maps were actually created by more than one person. Ted De Grazia is who I believe made the Priest/Horse Map, but not the trail maps. I believe Chuck Aylor....with friends, put together the Trail Maps.

Since Travis never told me, or anyone I personally know, anything about the Stone Maps, I can't call him a liar. With that being fact, it does not follow that I believe Travis told any lies about them. Not sure he said anything at all, other than to his family.

When Waltz died, and his story became public, people were coming out of the woodwork and from behind every rock and cactus with stories about how they knew, saw, talked and followed him. I call it the "Hell I Was There" syndrome.
That's an original Joe-ism, stolen from a well known hand-gunner's book title. Elmer Keith.

Believe the Stone Maps fall under that syndrome.

Everyone knows way more about those maps than I do, so I could, of course, be wrong.

Take care,

Joe

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:44 pm

somehiker wrote:Joe:

"As I recall, he got the negative from which he made that copy, from Gene Davis. IMHO, it's as good as it gets."

It may be a small point,but if Dr. Glover's copy was taken from a "negative",that would have been a negative of a photo of the original (damaged) "bumper photo". It could not have been re-printed from a damaged negative....ie: the original negative.

"No doubt Wayne would just say it's all Mother Nature's work. Probably say the same thing about the 1866 Military Map. :lol: "

Not the map. :roll:
Or the trail in your photograph,which appears too wide to be an animal trail....thus it's inclusion on the 1866 map.
I'm sure it wasn't the army that wore that particular trail down to bedrock in places. It was probably the same folks who left their marks in Hieroglyphic Canyon and elsewhere throughout the range.And had lived there for centuries.
But there are many trails shown on that map,none of which...IMO...are the "dotted trail" indicated on the Map Stones. That "trail" is one which only the maker of the Map Stones would have known,and was never "well worn". Or designated with markers of any kind.
Other than at the beginning,I've found.And perhaps the end.
But it will be dangerous,I suspect.

Regards:Wayne
Wayne,

I should have worded that differently, but I agree it's a "small point". :)

Animal trails were the beginning of many man trails and roads. Those would include wagon trails, streets, highways and even railroads.

I had always thought that Hieroglyphic Canyon was the trail over the main mountain, but it seems more likely that Hog Canyon is that trail. In the overall map, it doesn't change much. You still end up at the heart in Little Boulder Canyon.

Joe

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