Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

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djui5
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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by djui5 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:52 pm

I believe so, this is all I could really find:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php? ... 79.90;wap2

Also I think Ruth was hunting something near that mountain in California, but I could be mistaken about that. The Valencia Mine or something?

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by cubfan64 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:46 am

Ruth was supposedly searching for the lost "Peg Leg" mine in the Anza Borrego dessert of CA. Gene Reynolds wrote a manuscript describing his attempt to "re-locate" that mine as well in "Borrego 13."

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by djui5 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:17 am

cubfan64 wrote:Ruth was supposedly searching for the lost "Peg Leg" mine in the Anza Borrego dessert of CA. Gene Reynolds wrote a manuscript describing his attempt to "re-locate" that mine as well in "Borrego 13."

Thanks Paul.

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:04 pm

There doesn't seem to be very much "jesuit" in the California Superstition Legend that I can find.
As I stated,I would love to see the script for the series.

Could this be an attempt by the Jesuits to confuse and steer those that are interested in the idea/possibility of a large cache or mines,to a less likely area?

A bit of research might,if it shows a similar geographical shift for each of the other legends of "Hidden Treasures" ,reveal a tactical deception in play.

I have noticed,these last few years,that as the interest in treasure legends and searching for lost treasure has increased,with more technical aids available and ever more research material being published online,there seems to be a parallel growth in defenders of jesuit innocence and even jesuits themselves posting on treasure related websites.

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories but in this case,I think that with the progress which has been made in these areas of treasure hunting..."they" are beginning to feel the heat.

Tactics such as this may backfire in the end,however,if one of these "Lost Treasures of the Jesuits" is found.It will only make it more difficult to claim ownership.

Regards:SH.

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:00 pm

I have little doubt that if a treasure ever turns up, the church will have plenty of documentation sufficient to prove ownership. (assuming the proof is not already inscribed right on the treasure itself). Then all they have to say, is that it was stashed away just before an Indian uprising, and the only ones who knew where, where killed in the revolt. If I found it. It would be just my luck to get 50 Bucks and a long Thank You letter from the church! :lol:

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:41 am

Jim:
If you are correct,I can only imagine the fur that would be flying throughout the courtroom as the various affected parties fought for their share.The Church,I suspect,would be only one of the claimants and at the same time,the organization with the most to lose.The federal government would likely receive the largest share,with the distribution of the balance being determined by,I would hope,a panel of those not so sympathetic to the church or impressed by "oops,we forgot about these until just yesterday!" documents.It would make for a grand spectacle though,and almost as interesting as the maps themselves.

Regards:SH.

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:05 am

There is one case history that is encouraging SH,

After fighting it in the courts for about 10 years, the Supreme Court finally came down with the decision of "Finders Keepers" in the case of Mel Fisher, and his find of the shipwreck "Atocha". He ended up with 100% of the treasure. Of course the Feds and the State of Florida collected a lot of Taxes on it, but that is all they got.


This article was first published

(March 15, 2001)

On February 20, 2001, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a decision by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals that awarded two centuries-old sunken Spanish ships (one sunk in 1750, the other in 1802) found and salvaged off the coast of Virgina by an American salvage company, Sea Hunt Inc, back to Spain in both ownership and salvage rights.

This ruling is a doozy - the awarding of centuries-old shipwrecks to their country of origin, rather than to their finder. In this latest chapter in a series of decades-long legal battles between treasure salvors and various government agencies, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that a centuries-old shipwreck has not been ‘abandoned’ unless its owner, at some time in the past, formally declared it so. This declaration by the court has thrown wide open the ownership question of newly-discovered artifacts and treasure from ships that sank centuries ago.

For decades, questions of ownership of ancient treasure vessels hinged upon the legal concept of ‘abandonment.’ Modern salvors have relied on the courts to award them ownership of old abandoned shipwrecks on a ‘finders keepers’ basis when the ships’ owners have been out of the picture for, say, 100 years or more.

What is abandonment? Imagine you went fishing off the Florida Keys one day, and you got caught in a sudden squall. Your boat sank on a shallow reef, and you had to swim to safety. Now, as soon as the weather clears, you’re probably going to make an effort to go out and recover it. It's your boat, and just because you swam away from it during a storm doesn’t mean you ‘abandoned’ it.

Now imagine you're on a different fishing excursion, in your boat again off the Florida Keys. This time, the weather stays clear and beautiful, but the fishing is a little slow. While idling the time away, you look down in the clear, shallow water near a coral reef and you spot the shape of an bronze cannon on the ocean floor. Suspecting it's from an old wrecked galleon, you dive into the shallow water and find a piece of eight in the sand. Now, clearly, that old wreck had been abandoned, and that piece of eight is yours to keep. Why? Because ‘finders keepers.’

This concept was most famously tested by Mel Fisher in his battle for the remains of the Atocha. He filed claim on the sunken ship, and his claim prevailed when he demonstrated that Spain had not made any salvage efforts on the 1622 shipwreck of the Nuestra Senora de Atocha for hundreds of years.


I wonder if the church has any records of their "salvage efforts" for the buried Jesuit treasure?

Jim


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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:37 pm

"I wonder if the church has any records of their "salvage efforts" for the buried Jesuit treasure?"
Maybe,maybe not.But I am sure that they could come up with something if they were asked for proof.
The article that you posted was an interesting read.I wonder if the Fisher family's law firm would be interested in a second match?
The legal case,as it applies to shipwrecks,is probably more complicated due to the circumstances of the loss,coupled with maritime salvage law.Although the discovery of a large amount of cached valuables on land may result in a host of claimants appearing to make their case for a fair share.Issues such as how the property was obtained and whether it was legally obtained would have to be testified to.I would assume that the issue of illegal mining and possibly inducted labour would cause a major rewrite to the history of the Jesuits in Arizona and perhaps elsewhere.The Church may not want to re-open that can of worms.Any claim by Native groups would have to support this evidence,although I would personally support any reasonable claim,based on the relevant history and Treaty Law.
It is not an area of research where I have devoted much effort.Perhaps I should.

Regards:SH.

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:45 pm

I don't know if there is any case history that would apply to this situation. If anyone ever found a buried Jesuit cache in the past. They probably just kept their mouth shut, and sailed happily off into the sunset with it!

:D

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by somehiker » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:10 pm

That boat musta been drawin a lotta water,I'd wager. :shock:
Paid cash for it I'd guess. ;)
Regards:SH.

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