The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

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alan m
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by alan m »

Hello Cani
I am working on getting a handle on how to upload photos on this site as I have a few from when I first discovered the base camp, these photos are of what appears to be defensive walls.
The Spanish had discovered a neat trick in defending themselves from an Apache sneak attack.
Walls were constructed to a height of about 3 feet and anouther foot or two was dug out from the interior, then they would cut down a Saguaro cactus and then cut it into 3 foot sections which they placed on top of the walls to act like a form of natural barbed wire. The Apache were quite adapted to handling the thorns of numerous cacti but the 2 to 3 inch long spines from the Saguaro were a different matter. I found remains of such cut cactus at this site.
As for the discovery of hidden Jesuit treasures I think that it is a slim possibility. From what I have uncovered in the text and letters of Jesuit writtings, they were very cryptic and secretive and it has taken years or research to uncover just a few tidbits of covert information. I am sure that the Jesuits would be no less through in thier hiding of any treasure.
It is this belief that keeps me pouring years of research into this, if any Jesuit treasure is ever found, it would be an historical treasure indeed.
Best Regards
Alan
Jim Hatt

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Jim Hatt »

alan m wrote: I am working on getting a handle on how to upload photos on this site as I have a few from when I first discovered the base camp,
Alan,

I have updated the instructions for putting photos in your posts in the DUSA Forums.

They are at:

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... 686#p23686

Jim
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Casca »

Hi Mike and Everyone.

When you said read the whole thing, well, all 11 pages of post took awhile. But was well worth it.

First post here, so let me introduce a bit. I live in Las Cruces, and after a injury last year took up meteorite hunting for exercise. This lead to metal detecting. This lead to prospecting. This lead to finds in the desert and mountains, which has brought me here. I hope to add to the forum, but my knowledge is very limited. My resources are the library or online, and feet on the ground. I like to post quotes, pictures, and links of what I am saying. I encourage all opinions even if they disagree with my own post.

I once said I found the Lost Dutchman Mine. I was upset, I didnt fit in. I was a troll. I apologize for that right here and now. Im sure the post wasnt read twice, and the ignore button got clicked. The closest I have ever gotten to the lost Dutchman was the highway through Apache Junction. It took one real find to straighten me out and get me serious. I hope to earn your trust in the future by my actions here. I do appreciate the members only forum.

I read what you all are saying. I read what history wants us to believe. I see something totally different. I am not a arm chair treasure hunter. My resources are limited, and I can only work here local. But I am seeing a different side of the Jesuit. I may go into this later, but this post concerns Manje. Mike being a Kino fan as I have followed your post for months, you could help me explain better what I am saying here.

I have not seen anyone post about him, so I will pose a question concerning what the Jesuits actually did.

Manje who was both an administrative official and a military officer, committed political suicide when he reported the slavery and wealth of the of the Jesuits here in uncharted lands. Now I could have the Spanish and Jesuits confused. But Jesuits didnt quit working after they we recalled. I am in the process of searching for a full text of that report. I apologize in advance if I have brought a mute point to the table.

I became very aware of the intelligence, and efforts the Jesuits put into their work once I got to looking. I would not want to be one who messed with them.

So does anyone else here believe the Jesuits not only owned mines, but operated and overseen them too?
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by alan m »

Hello Casca
I am sorry to be the fly in your ointment BUT
There is no direct evidence that the Jesuits owned or operated any mines.
I have read all of the familier accounts that indicate the Jesuits involvement in mining, Och, Nentvig, Pfefferkorn, and Sedylmayer as well as the published Jesuit RELATIONS.
All of the evidence, if it can be called that, is circumstantial, with that said, the Jesuits did have gold and they did get it from somewhere.
Good luck finding the "smoking gun"
Best Regards
Alan
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Casca »

Hi Alan m,

I dont mean to suggest the Spanish owned and operated mines. Im suggesting they administered villages who did mine. A padre of Jesuit would be too busy for this distraction.

But I do believe they were busy very close to the mines.
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by alan m »

Hello Casca
I have been chasing down the Jesuit connection for a long time and even though I cant find any real evidence for it I am still inclined to agree that there must be some connection between the Jesuit activities and thier accumulation of gold and church treasures.
It seems that they covered thier actions well, however there are still some documented facts that are interesting to say the least for instance, the references to mining and mining activities seem centered around the writings of a few German Jesuits, all of which came to Sonora around 1750 i.e. Och, Nentvig, and Pfefferkorn. This is significant because Germany was the birthplace of the Reformation which was a main cause of the 30 years war. The Jesuits, however were not fully opposed to the Reformation according to some historians. This leads to some wild speculations about the German Jesuits and a possible alterier motive for serving in Sonora.
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Alan
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Casca »

Hello again,

I am in full agreement here on that.

I dont believe the Spanish was perfect, all the time every time. The art from the time period says a lot, but could be the only way one could speak out. There was a change after the Gerns got involved.

Over a period of few hundred years they got booted out. Most had time to hide wealth, if not for themselves, for the Pope on their return.

As I eyeball a camp, I can date the signs with my eye, and will tell you the Jesuits signs are much older, and a different form than the newer marks. You can see a difference.

Im happy taking my pictures. Im not sure a single person could recover a vault or mine by oneself. Finding a small cache would be a great feat.

Im workiong on a set of symbols right now.

I appreciate being able to read along, if I dont post its because you have already covered it here.

Im close enough to Apache Junction to try a few hikes this fall. But Im not able to do what you guys have been doing for years. I hope to find some Jesuits signs there too.
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by alan m »

You are in the perfect place to do some serious investigating into the Jesuit connection with the stone tablets map.
It is my own opinion, and it is not shared by everyone, that the map starting point is Santa Fe, the route progresses down the Rio Grande, also called the Rio Del Norte, to Las Cruses where it turns and heads west until reaching the San Pedro river where it then proceeds northward until reaching the Gila River.
There must have been some marker along the way, I suspect that it would be a mountain shillouette that matches one on the tablets but only if viewed from the correct point along the trail.
Best Regards
Alan
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Casca »

Hi Alan,

I dont know if it is just this area. But Im finding signs every 10-20 miles more or less. I live in Las Cruces, and so my post are based on my finds here.

I learned today the Spanish did mostly hardrock mining. They mixed their own black powder too. I kept finding bowls in rock near possible tunnels and mines. They smelled like sulfur when I dug a little dirt out of them. Could be more modern, but it was a neat find.

I have reason to believe the known Kings Trail is off by about 30 miles. It has to do with water, the lay of the land, and the access to..........mining sites. Smiles. Not really, settlements and protection from the Apache.

Im gonna follow the trail as far as I can. Not looking to dig, but I do look for signs of mining or a camp.
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by alan m »

You have nailed it my friend
My research has shown that they never took a route that put them more that 2 days away from water.
One treasure story has to do with a lost wagon load of gold as a result from the 1751 Pima Indian uprising, the wagon is believed to be hidden in the Sierra Pinta mountains of southern Arizona.
I investigated this story and concluded that the area of Sierra Pinta could not the location of the lost wagon as it was 6 days round trip from any water source.
I concluded that the most probable location for the lost wagon was the Tinija Atlas mountains.
A field survey of the area in 1996 yielded some interesting artifacts.
The point is that you are 100% correct in stating that the depicted route of the Kings Road is in error.
The truth is there for those who have the eyes to see.
Best Regards
Alan
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