The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by javaone »

Thanks Mike, - I'll check it out...

Jerry
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by gollum »

One more thing................

If you do find Jesuit Hearts, it will most likely not mean the same thing as a Spanish Heart. Remember, the Jesuits were hiding things from the Spanish and would not have left clues the Spanish could understand.

Best-Mike
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by silent hunter »

Gollum Thanx much for your reserch I am all over what you have spent so much time with.. I must say though I have never seen HAHAHA used so perfectly.
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by somehiker »

Mike:
I can well imagine that some of the discoveries made during study of Jesuit history do prompt a few HAHAHA guffaws.Many a statement of "truth" made by Jesuit denialists have cracked me up as well.I do suspect however,that the friars themselves were more reserved in their sense of humour,prone to the odd chuckle from time to time as they went about their work.
A quote from Florence Weinburg:
"The most impressive of the Jesuit mission churches came next day, farther upriver at Arispe, where Carlos Rojas, S.J. served for 14 years and built a magnificent stone church. His name is incised on the facade along with various symbols, including sun and moon, and pillars where saints' statues were once attached. Inside, the lofty ceiling is beamed with carved mesquite (I still can't quite imagine mesquite trees that big), and the retablos in the transepts are both originals, ca. 1720's. I found Rojas' church especially moving."

A "HAHAHA" observation
Seems that the good father had at least one competent stoneworker on staff.Incised symbols are a rarety on mission walls,from what I gather,and I doubt that these symbols would have chisel marks visible,(a point that the doubters always seem to make),despite a lack of modern power tools at the time. Not that difficult to scrape and sand chisel marks out,anyway.

I have been looking for a photo(s) of the front of the church that gives a good view of the "symbols" that the author mentions.Any photos of cemetary markers from the relevant timeframe could also lead to a "HAHAHA" as well.

Anything in your files,Mike?
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by somehiker »

From a Jesuit publication of 1672.

Image

Maybe the higher ups kept all the good stuff from poor Fr. Polzer?
An authority on Jesuit history? HAHAHA
(sarc)
Regards:Somehiker
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by gollum »

No,

I believe Father Polzer SJ knew exactly which parts of history he wanted to omit from general knowledge. As my friend in Tumacacori always says "I believe Father Polzer's sole purpose in all his works was to have Father Kino Cannonized."

Everything and anything that would have cast ANY of the frontier Jesuit Fathers in a bad light (including admitting their breaking of both Royal Decrees and Ecclesiastical Precepts of mining and businesses for profit), would have made cannonization of Father Kino more difficult. That is why (I believe) that Father Polzer was such a staunch disbeliever of anything to do with Jesuits owning treasures, or mining.

Best-Mike
Jim Hatt

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Jim Hatt »

Hi Mike,

I think your friend in Tumacacori probably said it as well as it can be said!

Jim
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by somehiker »

Mike and Jim:
As is now and was the case back when,I'm sure that only those most pragmatic and best informed men are allowed to take authoritative positions on behalf of the church and the order.Father Polzer SJ held such a position at the University of Arizona,as we all know,and his publications and stand on Jesuit activities in the southwest are often quoted by those who rely on his stated opinions to promote their own.
Thus the "sarc" in my post.


An article,authored by Fr.Polzer,re:the beautification of Padre Kino.
http://www.companysj.com/v194/padre.htm

Regards:Wayne
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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Bar Tender »

Rumor has it Kino will be elevated to Sainthood next year, the 300th anniversary of his death.

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Tayopa »

Hmmmm Interesting, as far as it has gone. I can definitely add many pages myself, some conflicting with present posts.

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Don Jose de La Mancha
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