The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Moderator: gollum

Jim Hatt

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:52 pm

alan m wrote: So many times I have been misslead by a natural rock formation that I thought was a clue or symbol. I will now tell you of ONE WAY in which to tell the difference.
Usually there are very few if any signs or markers at the location of the treasure site.
Markers are positioned around the area to bring your attention to some significant clue which is almost always a land mark. there will only be one clue or marker per location however that clue will point to another one some distance away and there is where you will find another one, but only one. You have to track down as many as you can and then "see" how they are related in order to get the whole picture.
The heart sign, for example shoud be pointing to another group of rocks where you should find another heart symbol or some other one which is related to the heart such as a dagger or an arrow. Most of the symbolic relationships are based upon stories from the Bible or Mythology.
Great find!
Best Regards
Alan
Hi Alan,

These are some pretty specific instructions. How can you be sure any of them are correct unless, you have already located a treasure using them?

Don't you think this would all be better... presented as an opinion rather than hard facts?

Best,

Jim

User avatar
alan m
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:27 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by alan m » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:16 pm

Hello Jim
I stand corrected and do offer this up as an opinion.
My comments are based upon the numerous discoveries I have made wherein I have found ruins by following rock symbols.
I would be more specific if I were not afraid that someone will think that there is gold at this location and desicrate it. I will however give you the specifics via E-Mail so that you can check it out for yourself as I would welcome your opinion.
Other information that I offer up as proof can be found in the books by Charles Kenworthy, he describes numerous rock signs which lead him to locate an old Spanish mine. I have seen these signs as well as the evidence of associated mining at his location, I admit however that I was unable to locate the mine itself.
Best Regards
Alan

Casca
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:24 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Contact:

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Casca » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:36 pm

Hi alan,

I tried to send a pm, but Im not allowed. I hope you find what your looking for. The answers are already out there. Good Luck

User avatar
Exploration Fawcett
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:06 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Africa

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Exploration Fawcett » Thu May 05, 2011 2:30 pm

Hello Jim & All:
I found a Ted De Grazia Jesuit treasure map drawing that I have not seen before. This is not the same sketch or drawing as in the famous book “De Grazia and His Mountain The Superstitions”, page 21. which has been reproduced in this forum before.

The map/drawing by De Grazia that I found and copied below is from a book titled “A Tiny Bit of God’s Creation” by John L. Dahlmann and illustrated by De Grazia. The book is about an actual hiking/horse trip the author and De Grazia completed in The Superstitions. There were only 1,000 copies of the book published. The map is located opposite page 9.

Interesting facts about this map/drawing is that it shows the words in Spanish: Jesuit treasure; Fish Creek; water; hat; north; ironwood, and mine. It also shows what appears to be the Four Peaks, a triangular shape stone house or cliff dwellers, a Mexican hat, Weaver’s Needle, and the words “ORO”.

Maybe some of you have seen this De Grazia drawing before. But for those who have not seen it, perhaps, in my humble opinion, is another piece of the puzzle of what De Grazia may have known (or not known!) about the Jesuit treasure, the LDM and/or the Peralta Stones.

Image

The locations and words used in the map/drawing are in Spanish. The translations are as follows: Jesuit treasure; Fish Creek; water; hat; north; ironwood (Palo Fiero) and mine. It also shows what appears to be the Four Peaks in the north, a triangular shape stone house or cliff dwellers in the upper part of the map, a Mexican hat (sombrero), Weaver’s Needle, and the words “ORO”. Although I did not mention it in the posting, it also shows a very faint bedera peligroza running up to Weaver's Needle.

Enjoy!

Very Respectfully
George

Jim Hatt

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri May 06, 2011 6:33 pm

Thanks for the map George,

Personally... I can't seem to pull any useful information out of it, that corresponds to any of the legends & lore of the Superstitions.
Maybe someone else will.

Best,

Jim

Casca
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:24 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Contact:

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Casca » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:39 am

Many apologies for my absence as I don't do much in the heat of the summer.

I will try to visit on a daily basis to add my two cents worth.

A few post above by Jim,(May I call you JIM?), said what I believe to be a fact. That signs lead to other signs, and all the signs together paint a picture of what you are being showed. But, you can chase signs around in circles all day and come up with empty holes.

There is a lot of info on how to spot landmarks and such already published. I don't read those books as I end up chasing 9 foot giants and space aliens. I do my own work.

What I am finding is there is usually one or more clues should you start finding signs.

I wont bore or insult you guys as I respect your time and knowledge and really enjoy the forum. I have learned much from you all and have need of some help again by you all.

As I now have hands on experience and have formulated some theory's and proving them to myself anyway. I wish to put some really neat info out there for speculation. I want it debunked or looked at by experts like yourself.

I do not dig as rule, I photograph and then try to figure out what I am looking at. Who put it there and such. I get excited to the point I forget to eat, drink water, or keep track of time when Im on trail. This of course is bad practice and why I stepped away for a bit. But the feeling is still there every time I open my front door and see my mountain, lol.

I would love to travel the Arizona Supers for a week or so and take my pictures for further study. I feel I have stumbled across some thing really neat and dont know who to talk to.

In my search of signs, symbols, carvings, and rock formations. I have found more than one visitor to these sites. Gold and silver has been held in awe for hundreds and possible thousands of years. So where gold and silver was found, people tended to gather for various reasons. Unfortunately something around these sites tend to make those who spend too much time there daffy. I have met a few lol.

I started to see what some have seen also. Light and dark pictograms, animals, hearts, daggers, and such. I went to known treasure trove locations, and yes they were empty or I wouldn't be talking on here lol. I studied the area closely and realized the treasure trove cache was to lure you away from the real find. The real sign you are looking for is buried and you need to know how to find it. This is where is gets a little complicated but not impossible for a corn fed country boy from Ohio like myself. I was trained by a uncle to track in the woods of Ohio, and yes I am part Native American. Just not sure what part I got ha ha.

I could go on with the background to set the scene, but want to close this for now.

I have found a few (of many), things that I believe will lead to a real King Solomon type treasure trove. One is a alpha/numeric code, a certain type of symbol, some very clever disguised symbols that are very easy to decipher(the real signs), and of course the trail marker signs.

I would need to speak with expert on this, anyone know any 200 year old Jesuits? I also look at the Peralta Stones, and the maps of the Superstitions with a new set of eyes. I do believe the lost mines of the supers exist, and no amount of sign removal will cover the real trail.

I need help from a Jesuits point of view. As I concentrate on these signs mostly.

Here is my question. Its in a few parts, but all ties together.

Why would Jesuits mark a site in such a way that it could be easily found several hundred years later? Since I believe the sites I am finding are of ceremonial importance(not gold, sorry), why a gold or silver mine/crypt? If I enter one of these crypts, what would I find? Who is the long nose fella? What does the triangle represent in Jesuit belief? Is there a Jesuit greeting of hand symbols and what do they represent as I feel there is and this is very important? Im seeing way-points at 4-5 hour increments, is that a true days march? What will I find in the center of the Triangle?

If I can link up with like minded folks I can share much more. I think my head is on right, and I know Im not crazy. I could take you to several sites and believe you would not see the real signs till I pointed them out.
I also understand how the mines can be lost for hundreds of years. I look forward to your post. I am not the crazy guy on Tnet either lol. I live in New Mexico.

If you have a good knowledge of the Padre La Rue mine, and the Real Kings Trail, lets share some info.

Casca
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:24 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Contact:

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by Casca » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:44 am

Exploration Fawcett wrote:Hello Jim & All:
I found a Ted De Grazia Jesuit treasure map drawing that I have not seen before. This is not the same sketch or drawing as in the famous book “De Grazia and His Mountain The Superstitions”, page 21. which has been reproduced in this forum before.

The map/drawing by De Grazia that I found and copied below is from a book titled “A Tiny Bit of God’s Creation” by John L. Dahlmann and illustrated by De Grazia. The book is about an actual hiking/horse trip the author and De Grazia completed in The Superstitions. There were only 1,000 copies of the book published. The map is located opposite page 9.

Interesting facts about this map/drawing is that it shows the words in Spanish: Jesuit treasure; Fish Creek; water; hat; north; ironwood, and mine. It also shows what appears to be the Four Peaks, a triangular shape stone house or cliff dwellers, a Mexican hat, Weaver’s Needle, and the words “ORO”.

Maybe some of you have seen this De Grazia drawing before. But for those who have not seen it, perhaps, in my humble opinion, is another piece of the puzzle of what De Grazia may have known (or not known!) about the Jesuit treasure, the LDM and/or the Peralta Stones.

Image

The locations and words used in the map/drawing are in Spanish. The translations are as follows: Jesuit treasure; Fish Creek; water; hat; north; ironwood (Palo Fiero) and mine. It also shows what appears to be the Four Peaks in the north, a triangular shape stone house or cliff dwellers in the upper part of the map, a Mexican hat (sombrero), Weaver’s Needle, and the words “ORO”. Although I did not mention it in the posting, it also shows a very faint bedera peligroza running up to Weaver's Needle.

Enjoy!

Very Respectfully
George
George I believe it to be real. I would start at the top right. Good Luck.

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:31 pm

George,

Do you read "pescado.....agua" to mean "Fish Creek"? Since Spanish was not DeGrazia's first language, that might be how he would write it. The Stone Maps leave the same impression.

Thanks,

Joe

User avatar
gollum
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:41 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: http://www.1oro1.com
Contact:

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by gollum » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:21 pm

Joe,

As I have stated too many times to remember, I wouldn't put a lot of weight behind the misspellings of words. If the stones were created by German Jesuits (as I theorize), then the majority of their Spanish would have been learned phonetically (hence cabollo instead of caballo). If you look at a section of a letter I am translating for someone, there are several misspellings (and this letter is written by a Spaniard (from Spain).

I have a lot of experience translating Colonial Spanish Documents. I KNOW DAN.......I KNOW! This is just the second draft of the transcription (first stage of the translation). It is gone through several changes since this version(where is says "es no" is actually "como"), and there are still a few unknowns, but it should be enough to give you an idea.

The two main misspellings I refer to are:

"nueba" (for nueva) and "ninyas" (for ninas). Both words are spelled PHONETICALLY correct, but are both GRAMMATICALLY incorrect.

Best - Mike
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:41 pm

Hi Mike,

I was not questioning the spelling of "agua" or "pescado". I believe both are correct. I wanted to know if George took that to mean "Fish Creek".

Take care,

Joe

Post Reply