The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by TradClimber » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:53 am

The Catholic Church as a whole agrees with Saint Loyola that people are more inclined to worship in a Church that is awe inspiring over one that is plain and unadorned.
You gotta give the faithful something for their money.

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by coazon de oro » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:52 pm

Hello Everyone, The Jesuit order had treasure, no question about it, but it did belong to the church. What Jesuit has retired to a private mansion? Remember they don't even give to the poor. Some treasures had to be hidden for protection at some time, the question is where, and did they leave clues or maps? Here is my opinion as to why the Catholic church as a whole believes in adorning the way it does. Mrs. O says God has never wanted statues of gold or any other flamboyant displays. The fact is our Lord himself ordered the Ark Of The Covenant be built with the most flamboyant of materials. Homar

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by roc2rol » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:15 pm

Hi Mike & all other contributors !!

I have an abiding interest in the Jesuits. Not that I’m all that well studied in the particularly, but they do keep popping up in readings of philosophical/historical literature. As far as their activities in the southwest, of any hidden treasures or their mining activities ect… I plead my ignorance. But after perusing this thread I’ve learning much!

I read your expulsion part of the Jesuits with interest. Recently I was reading a historical account that mentioned a Jesuit expulsion. So after reading your list I went back to reference what I had read earlier. There was an expulsion of the Jesuits from France in 1594. It had to do with an attempted assassination of King Henry IV, I believe. Well the referenced material really doesn’t give much more details. I know this is not of interest to many--- but thought you might like to know gollum. Or, you may already know of this? If not, maybe you or your scholarly friends could supply more details?

O and the discussion of Jesus’ poverty and if that necessarily mean the Church should be ---
is of immense interest---
and a centuries old debate!!!

roll on
Ed

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by gollum » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:52 pm

roc2rol wrote:Hi Mike & all other contributors !!

I have an abiding interest in the Jesuits. Not that I’m all that well studied in the particularly, but they do keep popping up in readings of philosophical/historical literature. As far as their activities in the southwest, of any hidden treasures or their mining activities ect… I plead my ignorance. But after perusing this thread I’ve learning much!

I read your expulsion part of the Jesuits with interest. Recently I was reading a historical account that mentioned a Jesuit expulsion. So after reading your list I went back to reference what I had read earlier. There was an expulsion of the Jesuits from France in 1594. It had to do with an attempted assassination of King Henry IV, I believe. Well the referenced material really doesn’t give much more details. I know this is not of interest to many--- but thought you might like to know gollum. Or, you may already know of this? If not, maybe you or your scholarly friends could supply more details?

O and the discussion of Jesus’ poverty and if that necessarily mean the Church should be ---
is of immense interest---
and a centuries old debate!!!

roll on
Ed
Ed,

The reason I don't go into that is the same reason I don't also go into the English Jesuit involvement in the Gunpowder Plot of 1605 (and other intrigues in many Asian Countries). First, it is not my intention to smear the Jesuits Name. Second, it has nothing to do with the Jesuits Mining/Refining/Hiding Treasure in Nueva Espana.

All my references are strictly in the context of Treasure Hunting.HAHAHA

Best-Mike

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by gollum » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:16 pm

I posted these pics on another thread, but they also really belong here, so I will repost them here:


Most people don't know of any REAL recovered Jesuit Caches. I know of two:

One was by Charles Kenworthy which consisted of 1028 silver bars thought to be a Martyr Cache for Padre Javier Saeta SJ who was murdered in the Service of God in the Pima Indian Uprising of 1695. This is a copy of the only known picture of one the those Silver Ingots:

Image

The next pictures are of a cache of 82 pounds of gold bars found Southwest of Tucson, AZ in 1986. There was an article about the find in Treasure Magazine in 1986, but the few pictures were in B&W. I am the first person my friend has let make Hi Resolution Scans of his 35mm Pics. For obvious reasons, my friend does not wish his name or face be shown.

Image

Image

A common factor on both the Gold Bars in one cache and the Silver Bars in the other cache is the "Cross" over the "V". This symbol has long been thought to be one used to reference the Jesuit Order. There is nothing documentary that proves this, and no absolute meaning has been found for the symbol.......and believe me, I have looked long and hard (and will keep doing so until I figure it out).

My best guesses for the "Cross over V" Symbol are:

1. On some Jesuit Maps, different Missions have different symbols that show different orders, cabaceras, etc. Example:

Image

2. One of the Latin phrases the Jesuits use is "In Hoc Signo Vinces". We normally only see the "IHS" Part (In Hoc Signo). In Hoc Signo roughly translates as "Through His Name" In Hoc Signo Vinces would roughly translate as "Victory Through His Name."

Best-Mike

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by roc2rol » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:13 pm

gollum wrote:
roc2rol wrote:Hi Mike & all other contributors !!

I have an abiding interest in the Jesuits. Not that I’m all that well studied in the particularly, but they do keep popping up in readings of philosophical/historical literature. As far as their activities in the southwest, of any hidden treasures or their mining activities ect… I plead my ignorance. But after perusing this thread I’ve learning much!

I read your expulsion part of the Jesuits with interest. Recently I was reading a historical account that mentioned a Jesuit expulsion. So after reading your list I went back to reference what I had read earlier. There was an expulsion of the Jesuits from France in 1594. It had to do with an attempted assassination of King Henry IV, I believe. Well the referenced material really doesn’t give much more details. I know this is not of interest to many--- but thought you might like to know gollum. Or, you may already know of this? If not, maybe you or your scholarly friends could supply more details?

O and the discussion of Jesus’ poverty and if that necessarily mean the Church should be ---
is of immense interest---
and a centuries old debate!!!

roll on
Ed
Ed,

The reason I don't go into that is the same reason I don't also go into the English Jesuit involvement in the Gunpowder Plot of 1605 (and other intrigues in many Asian Countries). First, it is not my intention to smear the Jesuits Name. Second, it has nothing to do with the Jesuits Mining/Refining/Hiding Treasure in Nueva Espana.

All my references are strictly in the context of Treasure Hunting.HAHAHA

Best-Mike
Then its out of the question to have a heated discussion
about the Jesuit/Janseism debate of 1657 in which
Blaise Pascal wrote his masterpiece, “Provincial Letters”
in defense of Antoine Arnauld & condemning the Jesuits
use of casuistry?
And just what was the Molinist position ? Ha Hhaaa !

just having some fun
I'm all for --going for the gold
good luck
&
delete as neccesary
E :D

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by gollum » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:48 pm

The Jesuits opposed the Reformation and supported the Inquisitions, as they were the last defense against Lazy Religiousness.

HAHAHA

The reason I don't make attempts to smear the Jesuits, is because I correspond with several of them (including some Jesuit Archivists at the Jesuit Curia in Rome). I don't have any idea whether or not they have seen anything I have written about them online, but so far I have never had any troubles getting answers to most questions I have asked.

Best-Mike

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by javaone » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:38 pm

Hello Mike,

Very interesting stuff...

Its been a little quiet here for a couple of days, soooo

I have a couple of questions, but I’ll start with this one. My second will probably be answered by your first answer/opinion.

There has been some question as to when the “heart” symbol began to be used by the Jesuits. Any answers/opinions about this would be interesting. :?:

Thanks
Jerry

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by gollum » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:23 pm

Different Jesuits used different symbols all at the same time throughout their history. The Sacred Heart was one of the earliest Jesuit Symbols. It was meant to show Jesus' love for all mankind.

Jesuits used IHS/In Hoc Signo (Through His Name), IHSV/In Hoc Signo Vinces (Victory Through His Name), the Sacred Heart, Chi Ro, three nails (stood both for the Holy Trinity and the Three nails used to secure Christ to the cross), and many others.

Best-Mike

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Re: The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

Post by javaone » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:42 am

Thanks Mike,

That blew my second question all to heck. My thoughts were that if the “Heart” became used more prevalently around the 1700, 1800s it might lead to a particular Priest that began using it in his writings or as a part of his signature – Maybe in Sonora Mex.

It was a wild shot in the dark.

Thanks Again

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