The Peralta-Fish Map

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Matthew Roberts
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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Matthew Roberts » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:43 pm

Peralta land Grant Document 1 (2).jpg
Peralta Land Grant Document 22.jpg


These are the two pages James Reavis and Charles Gitt changed in the original Peralta Land grant to make it into a fraudulent grant of MUCH greater size.

On the first page Reavis merely changed the page number in the upper and lower right hand corner.

Then he inserted an entire page that made the grant MUCH larger than the original Peralta grant.

That's it, that's all Reavis had to do to change a perfectly good small land grant into a huge fraudulent grant.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:53 am

Matthew Roberts,
I am at a disadvantage when it comes to the Reavis evidence. My focus has been on Miguel L. and those he knew/did business with. But I now see the importance of going back and looking at all the material.

I first want to see the original campfire agreement because the entire story hangs on that one document.

A word of caution about "Doc" Willing. I can see how you came to that conclusion, that he was murdered. But don't believe it Matthew. With a little effort, the authors who repeat that tale would have found that Willing die of exposure. Yes, people were trying to kill him. Apache people.

Willing survived the attack, the only one in his party to do so. I think that he simply got wet, stayed wet while hiding, then became dehydrated. Essentially extreme exposure until eventually reaching help. Willing may have even experienced a temporary rebound before taking to bed with fever. He suffered some in the night then passed before morning.

His burial was an atypical duel one, being buried alongside a well loved local official. Hopefully you find this odd detail curious because it leads to that "dumb f..." moment when you think "how did I miss that?".

Matthew and anyone reading this...can you explain what Doc Willing was doing in Black Canyon with the Peraltas on 20 October, 1864? Our first formal Thanksgiving.

Very interesting.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Joe Ribaudo » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:42 am

Matthew Roberts wrote:Peralta land Grant Document 1 (2).jpg

Peralta Land Grant Document 22.jpg



These are the two pages James Reavis and Charles Gitt changed in the original Peralta Land grant to make it into a fraudulent grant of MUCH greater size.

On the first page Reavis merely changed the page number in the upper and lower right hand corner.

Then he inserted an entire page that made the grant MUCH larger than the original Peralta grant.

That's it, that's all Reavis had to do to change a perfectly good small land grant into a huge fraudulent grant.

Matthew Roberts
Matthew,

Interesting documents. Can you tell us your source for them? Looks like something that might be found in Greg's collection.

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Matthew Roberts » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:49 am

Joe Ribaudo,

Matthew,

Interesting documents. Can you tell us your source for them? Looks like something that might be found in Greg's collection.

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo


Greg Davis may well have these pages in his collection but that is not where I saw them or got them. Most everyone interested in the James Reavis Arizona land fraud looks to the transcripts of the Reavis' trial. That will get you nowhere and even lead you to a bounty of false assumptions and misleading information even outright lies. James Reavis was indeed guilty and deserved his sentence but his trial was a travesty of errors in testimony and today even a bad lawyer could get the verdict overturned on appeal. The sentiment against Reavis at the time was so great, he was going to prison no matter what, his trial was a mere formality.

Where you want to look to find the facts of the matter are in the US Court of Private Land Claims records (1891-1906) ArticleVIII of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (1848). The National Archives Building Archives I 700 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington D.C.

This court was charged with reviewing every land grant in the Arizona Territory dating back to the beginning.

The Peralta land grant George Willing purchased in 1864 was a legitimate grant. Miguel L. Peralta and his father were the heirs of that grant issued in 1748. After the James Reavis trial and after Miguel L. Peralta died his children tried to have this grant (the legitimate grant) verified by the US Court of Private Land Claims. They were unsuccessful mostly due to the sensational Reavis fraud trial and also because the ownership of the grant had been obscured probably by the sale to Willing.

The 3 pages posted of the Peralta grant are the only ones important to the Reavis trial because they are the only pages of that grant that Reavis altered to enlarge the land grant to the enormous size it became in his fraud.

There is so much more to this than can't be put down in any single post but I hope this helps in some way to explain your question.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Matthew Roberts » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:24 am

Matthew and anyone reading this...can you explain what Doc Willing was doing in Black Canyon with the Peraltas on 20 October, 1864? Our first formal Thanksgiving.

choto,

Something you might want to take into consideration is Doc Willing was not "with" the Peralta's as in a part of their mining group. Willing was a visitor but not the only visitor in the Peralta camp in October of 1864.

Daniel Connor in his published "Connor Diary" writes he was there when Willing purchased the land grant and thought about purchasing it himself but the problems everyone had in the past with the first 1854 US Land Court and Spanish/Mexican grants made him skeptical. It is very possible Willing was at the Peralta's camp in the same group that Connor was with. Connor and Willing were both well known prospectors and mining men so them being together and in the Peralta camp would not have been unusual.

Also, in Abraham Peeples memoirs he states that he had heard of the Mexicans mining to the east of his workings at Antelope Hill when he and a group of miners went to the head of Black Canyon and proceeded down the creek where he ran into the Peralta camp. (located just west of today's community of Bumble Bee, Arizona). The Peralta's were mining a shaft and tunnel and had several arrastara's working about a mile to the west in Black Canyon Creek (today known as Turkey Creek). Peeples noted the mining the Peralta's were doing there was quite old and extensive. Willing was definitely NOT with the Peeples group but very well may have been with Connor and his group. Connor and his group obviously came from the Prescott settlement as Connor had been with the Walker party exploring the region.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:25 am

Incredible to see those documents. But again, I need to see the original agreement. Everything that passed thru Reavis is questionable and while I respect your conclusions, there are a few academics who would question them. I need time and a trip to DC.

Anyway, you have shared some brilliant insight. The Connor diary is very curious.

Matthew, I don't want to get ahead of myself or stray too far from the topic and I certainly don't want to confuse anyone but, I really should expand on Doc Willing. It is my opinion that Doc Willing was a wanted southern sympathizer, once arrested by Federal soldiers, jailed, then improperly released thru his Masonic connections. Rearrest orders were given almost immediately but Willing managed to escaped (62'ish?) to Saint Louis where:

"...in 1864 at the head of a well-appointed prospecting party, which was apparently successful, and resulted in the forming of the Willing Mining and Exploring Company, which apparently was financially successful."


Willing had political aspirations and in 1859, he was involved in the 16 month, extralegal Jefferson Territory government (essentially a pro-slavery state with Colorado at its core). Speculation for sure but, Willing may have purchased the Peralta grant with the idea of establishing an independent, Jeffersonian state.

Ten years later (1874) Willing returned to Arizona to file his grant. Long after the war. I think that by 74' Willings ambitions had turned to making (extorting) money. Enter James Reavis.

Connor is very interesting.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by jhowlett » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:16 am

Hey Choto Do you live in Philly? Boy you guys have a ton of info but since the Revis land swindle was about land grant transfers in a phony manner, how does play in to the LDM, Peralta's or SOJ. It seems that it is interesting but a different subject. But I am sure you are going to tell of some common thread? Thanks Jeff.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by jhowlett » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:16 am

Hey Choto Do you live in Philly? Boy you guys have a ton of info but since the Revis land swindle was about land grant transfers in a phony manner, how does play in to the LDM, Peralta's or SOJ. It seems that it is interesting but a different subject. But I am sure you are going to tell of some common thread? Thanks Jeff.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by jhowlett » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:16 am

Hey Choto Do you live in Philly? Boy you guys have a ton of info but since the Revis land swindle was about land grant transfers in a phony manner, how does play in to the LDM, Peralta's or SOJ. It seems that it is interesting but a different subject. But I am sure you are going to tell of some common thread? Thanks Jeff.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:48 am

jhowlett wrote:Hey Choto Do you live in Philly? Boy you guys have a ton of info but since the Revis land swindle was about land grant transfers in a phony manner, how does play in to the LDM, Peralta's or SOJ. It seems that it is interesting but a different subject. But I am sure you are going to tell of some common thread? Thanks Jeff.
jhowlett,
Reavis picked up where Willing met his end and is connected to Miguel L. Peralta thru Miguel Noe. Noe was indicted for conspiracy with Reavis and fled to Mexico. He was also involved in another land grant case in San Francisco.

Doc Willing met Miguel L. Peralta and we think Miguel's father in Black Canyon, Thanksgiving Day, 1864. Don Peralta, Miguel's father, his name is in question but it should be Antonio Pedro. Personally, I think that it may have been Ramon. It is just not clear.

Ok, read this:

"This map had been provided by another member of the Peralta family and he wanted to learn if that was the only map made. They said that before the massacre when the two brothers of Don Pedro decided to give up mining and return to their homes in Mexico, a map was give to each brother, one to Ramon another to Manuel. Don Pedro elected to stay behind and work the mines as long as possible. Ramon and Manuel felt that with the constant Apache Indian harassment, they had enough wealth to live comfortably in Mexico without constant fear of the Apaches".

Dead Men Do Tell Tales
Lake Erie Schaefer


So, Cristobal's grandfather was Pedro Peralta. This is a verifiable fact. I think that this is the Pedro Peralta in the above story. BTW, Cristobal married Emilia Arvizu and they lived in Hermosillo. Miguel L Peralta's wife Dolores Arvizu was born in Hermosillo.

The Peralta Brothers according to Frank Fish.
Pedro
Ramon
Miguel

Associated Peraltas
Cristobol - Teodoro - Pedro Pedro's Map
Miguel L. - Ramon or Miguel Map?
Unknown -

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