ROJAS' SILVER BELL

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JoeyW
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ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by JoeyW » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:33 am

Hello Jim,

The more I read in the these forums the more I become entranced by it all, and I cannot help but be reminded of an experience I had in Phoenix a few months ago when my wife and I were visiting our daughter there.

One of the places we visited during our stay was a Catholic Church in downtown Phoenix. One of the things that we were most impressed with were some statues of Priests. As we were admiring them a Priest came across the courtyard and paused for a moment to speak with us as. We asked him who the Priests were in the statues. I remember him saying that the one was Father Kino (which we both had assumed) and another was Father Rojas.

He spoke for several minutes about the Priests and we were spellbound as we listened. When he finished my wife inquired about the Bell below Father Rojas. This was where the story became really interesting. He explained that just as the horse that Father Kino stands over is his trademark, the bell that Father Rojas stands over is his. Father Rojas was from Arizpe, Mexico and was assigned to Jesuit activities in the Northern Primeria Alta, specifically overseeing Indian labor involved with the mines owned and operated by Spain in the regions south and east of modern day Phoenix. During his involvement with the operations, Father Rojas desired to build a church in the high mountains to the east for the Indian laborers to attend.

Father Rojas had acquired a Silver Bell for a church he had planed to build. It was used to call the laborers from the mines all around for church services in the mountains, which were temporarily being held on top of a high flat plateau. At this time the King of Spain was experiencing a smaller and smaller income from the mines in the Primeria Alta, and there were growing tensions between him and the Jesuit Priests in charge of the labor there. The King apparently felt that the Jesuits were holding out on him and not giving him the full amount due to him. He said that the Rojas was told that the King was sending his men after him and he told the laborers to dig a hole and hide the bell until Rojas returned. Rojas was arrested and returned to Spain during the expulsion of 1776 and the bell is still hidden somewhere in the mountains near the mines. That is why the statue of Rojas has a bell at his feet.

Does any of this make sense to you or fit in with anything you are working on in connection with the stone maps and Jesuit mines or treasures hidden in the mountains?


Joey

Jim Hatt

Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:54 am

Joey,

This is an incredible post. So much so, that I moved it out of the General Discussion and into it's own topic. There are things in your story that would make me dismiss it totally and immediately, if it were not for the fact that I had heard them before from another source about a year ago.

The other source attended that church as a student when he was younger, and claimed to have heard a very similar story about Rojas from a Priest there, during a recent visit he made to the church, when he became interested in the stone maps. After reviewing his email telling me his story, I decided that either the two of you knew each other, and were putting me on, or you had both talked to the same Priest!

There is more to this story that makes it even more incredible, but I don't want to get into it, until I have talked it over with this other source, since some of the things he told me, may have been in confidence, and he might not want them discussed in an open forum. I am going to try to get him to logon, read your post and reply to you directly.

Jim



djui5
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Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by djui5 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:27 am

Wow.

South and East of Phoenix would probably be the mining area between Florence and Superior, I "assume".

Either way finding that bell would be extraordinary. I do have a feeling someone knew where it was and either sent a party to dig it up, or came out themselves. Just a hunch.

Jim Hatt

Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:49 pm

djui,

South and East of Phoenix to me meant... South Mountain & the Superstitions as if he were talking about two different areas. Good example of how different people reading the same thing can arrive at different meanings for it.

Clay Worst and I went to a Catholic church about 5 years ago to try to talk to a Priest. We couldn't get past the Nuns that run the Gift Shop. All we found out was that the Horse was Kino's Trade mark. We didn't even ask about Rojas or any of the other statues.

This morning I was able to verify that Rojas was from Arizpe, Mexico and that he was arrested in the 1776 expulsion. Couldn't find a thing about him being involved with any mining operations though.

I don't believe anyone is lying... Just repeating what they were told.
Legends and Lore or actual history? Your guess is as good as mine.

Anyway, Thanks for sharing it JoeyW.






djui5
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Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by djui5 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:55 pm

Jim Hatt wrote:djui,
Good example of how different people reading the same thing can arrive at different meanings for it.

:lol:

Maybe you are right :) Who knows.

Jim Hatt

Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by Jim Hatt » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:36 am

I am starting to think that this topic is going to cause the Priests at the church a lot of headaches with people showing up there, and asking them questions about Fr. Rojas and the possibility of hidden Jesuit Treasure in the mountains.
Does anyone have any objections with me just dumping the topic to avoid that?

Jim



Wright 1
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Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by Wright 1 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:47 am

To JoeyW, I am Wright 1, the other source of that story, before I go any futher, welcome to this site and I want you to enjoy it while you are here. Your story you posted will be removed, in your innocence to the subject, you said some things that should not have been said and its not your fault. I was told the same story,but I notice some differences in yours versus what I know, I went to that school as a child and I was baptized there, I remember hearing about the bell as a kid. We tried too keep this information to ourselves to simply protect the church from every average joe and plain jane going in there and asking questions about a history they wanted kept too themselves, until now.. I only told 2 people about this, 1 is Jim Hatt, and the other is a very good friend of Jim's that I will keep off the radar, what was told to you and your wife consider it priceless information you were blessed to have come across. "Welcome to the Hunt"

JoeyW
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Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by JoeyW » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:31 am

Wright 1 and Jim,

I fully understand your concerns and agree with you both. If there is any chance my post would cause any problems for anyone it should be removed or edited in any way you feel is needed! It won’t hurt my feelings at all. I have enjoyed reading the stories on this website, and my only intention was to offer something I thought would be interesting to the other members in return.

Joey

Jim Hatt

Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by Jim Hatt » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:30 pm

You're a real Gentleman Joey,

I just had a phone call from Wright 1, asking me if I could just edit the discussion to remove the name of the church, instead of deleting the whole topic, because he is still interested in discussing the subject with anyone else interested in Rojas' Silver Bell.

It is not the first time I have had to do that to protect the "innocent". I do not mind doing it as long as everyone involved agrees. This topic belongs to the two of you as far as I am concerned. What ever you two are comfortable with works for me... As long as we don't get any complaints to myself, or the Webmaster from someone representing the Catholic Church. :o

I think I have made all the changes necessary to keep the discussion from putting anyone on the "Spot".

Jim

Wright 1
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Re: ROJAS' SILVER BELL

Post by Wright 1 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:28 pm

Joey, I am a little confused and I will try to explain, you said the location and even put photos up of your trip, you mentioned the church, im almost certain you did that by accident. Some of the parts in your story are alittle different but not that important to purposely leave out or change around and thats where im confused. If I sound a bit iffy about you please forgive me, Im not sure how long you have been watching but if you saw this website before it was changed you would understand, I seen some of the harassment Jim went through and I believe it lead to the changes we see today. So I must ask did you change the story to leave things out you personally felt should be left out or is that what the man told you word for word?

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