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Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

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Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby somehiker » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:09 am

Well, that didn't take long.
I started a new thread on the other site, so that we could discuss our thoughts and ideas about the more recent information released about Travis and his adventures. It was going quite well, with some good observations shared amongst the participants, but apparently someone took issue with those submissions, and the entire thread was deleted. Perhaps we can carry on here.

As I requested on the other site....keep it civil, please.
I moderate this one, and all personal attacks on other posters will be deleted.

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby somehiker » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:58 am

While it's unfortunate that Ryan;s release of materials from the Tumlinson family has been curtailed , and further commenting by he and his associates prevented by contractual obligations, that doesn't mean a continued dialogue isn't possible amongst others still interested in Travis Tumlinson and the stone maps.
Given the assertion that Travis created the "museum stones" as a kind of alibi or diversion from what we have been told are the "real" stones that Travis found out there, namely five small stones that apply to various areas on the "ground map", it begs this question ....

Why would he carve and swap these much larger stones for the much smaller stones, and why only four, not five ?

It seems to me that if rumors had spread amongst the locals, in both Arizona and Texas, about Travis' discovery of old Spanish stone maps, that both the number of and small size of these stones would also have been part of those rumors. We already knew from the documents Gary had gathered and shared several years ago, that word about the discovery had gotten out despite Travis' paranoia, but nothing was ever mentioned about a "ground map" or "hide map" prior to my own suggestion that he was working from one of Pegleg Tumlinson's maps at the time. The way I see it, with those smaller stones applicable to only certain portions of the "ground map", which hadn't been leaked, there would have been no need to carve a set of phonys, let alone a much larger and more complicated set.

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:35 am

Wayne,

I've always known that the Stone Maps could be a fraud. Said that many times and to everyone who ever joined my team.

On the other hand, I stuck with them over the decades, because I could see the trail they followed. The answer to that would be a "reverse engineered" treasure map, using known locations and natural landmarks, such as the heart, at the end of the trail.

Knowing who, how and possibly why they were made, does paints a much clearer picture now. Peg Leg was a famous liar, and it would appear Travis had his eye on the crown.

Good luck to all who follow in their footsteps.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby somehiker » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:54 pm

Joe:

Seeing as how it's now fairly well accepted that Travis carved those trail stones, and maybe even the H/P stone, perhaps the balance of the evidence revealed by Travis' collection of writings, audio tapes and and photographs will prove that your theory and trail are the big kahuna after all. Should be a photo of your "heart" in there somewhere, I would think. And the "ground map" SHOULD pinpoint the location of both your trail and your heart as well....correct ?
Actually, I consider all maps of existing areas and features to be reverse engineered though. Since any cartographer would have to see it all, and know where it was, before he could map it.
This would certainly apply to all treasure maps as well, IMO.

Regards:Wayne

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:36 pm

Wayne,

Good thinking, except.......First you dream up a treasure, then you reverse engineer the treasure map. A treasure who's makeup is unnamed and not even hinted at, makes the whole thing more enticing.

Now if someone who knows every treasure tale of the Superstitions and every inch of the range helps you engineer the drawing to create on the Stone Maps, you have created a palpable treasure legend. For me, that trail goes right through many of those stories, and right through the middle of the Harry LaFrance cave of gold bars. :o Going a bit deeper, it has Storm's rich piece of "float" ore in Old West Boulder, Adolph Ruth's last camp and 1/2 dozen or so other stories/legends. I have to admit I've left out the stories that surround Black Top, of which there are many.

It's, basically, a target rich environment. :roll:

Take care,

Joe

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby somehiker » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:09 pm

Joe:

I'd agree on the target rich environment assessment, anyway.
But I think we'll have to wait and see what this "ground map" shows, as well as the results of proper dating and expert authentication, before I'm willing to accept the premise that it IS the original on which all of the stones were based. I'm hoping it's not just another copy, same as or altered somewhat, of one we are already familiar with, either some treasure map previously shared or published, or a hand drawn version of that 1902 Florence Topo, or even something else in a collection somewhere. If it is, someone will probably recognize it as such.

regards:Wayne

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:50 pm

Wayne,

Well put.

I will predict, hope I'm dead wrong, that the new stuff will get as much authentication as the old stuff.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby somehiker » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:30 am

Joe:

Absolutely necessary, before the new evidence can supplant the older stuff IMO.

You might recognize these items, which I had recently posted in one of the now deleted threads, as well as in a couple of posts a few years ago. It was one of the first things I thought of and re-examined when it was said the Travis had actually found a set of five small white stone "maps". In this case there are four small and one quite large, with the smaller stones being engraved on both sides, making 9 "maps" in total. So the concept is not new or unique. Both stones and their associated "legend" location is native to Arizona. A piece of one stone.... a broken off corner, is missing to this day, but is considered along with whoever finds it, as the "key" to unlocking the mystery.

A drawing of one of the small stones
Image

A photo of the larger map
Image

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:29 am

Wayne,

I do recognize the markings, and they are all Native American. I doubt all interpretations of them, as I don't believe anyone, other than the maker, can ascribe any meaning to them.

Sometimes, a stalk of corn is just a stalk of corn. ;)

Do you find some meaning in the way they are done?

Good luck,

Joe

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Re: Further Discussions of the Stone Maps

Postby deducer » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:55 pm

I would be interested in knowing, as well.

My primary interest is how Travis ended up where he ended up, how he knew where to be in the area where he "tripped" over the HS. Clearly he had information directing him to a particular spot. I wonder if the ability to spot WN from that part of the creek was a signifier.


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