Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTOS

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by silent hunter » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:06 am

Tom Thank you so much. I enjoy so much the history from the superstition mountain area. That shaft is amazing. I cant believe how small the opening is.

Thanks alot
Kurt P

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by cubfan64 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:29 am

Tom - you've mentioned the enormous collection of photographs and slides you have of the Superstition Mountains. While it's certainly a gigantic undertaking, have you started digitally archiving them? I can't begin to imagine the amount of history you have in that collection - it would be a shame to lose all of that one day.

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by LDMGOLD » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:31 am

Cubfan:

I believe I have about 8,000 slides in chemical free protected holders. I bought a Minolta film scanner several years ago and started scanning a few slides. It is a slow process with the scanner I have. I am thinking about buying a Nikon Professional Film Scanner that you can stack the slides in. I don't know when I will get around to digitizing all of the photographs. My collection room is like Greg Davis, but far from being as well organized or the same size. My room is only 10 x 12 devoted entirely to the Superstition Mountain history. I have about seventy-five original oils and water colors done on the Superstition Wilderness Area dating back to 1948. One of my prizes is an oil done by Peg Aylor and another done by Lucille King. I didn't have the time to spend organizing my collection as Greg did, but I have collected thousands and thousands of items. Just ask my wife. My personal letter collection from people all over the world for the past fifty years exceeds 5,000. My wife is constantly after me to do something. I retired in August of 2009 and I am still thinking about what I should do. I continue my column with the AJ News donating the column entirely to charity and the community. Our favorite charities are Project Help and VFW. I probably should have answered you in a email, however I am in my seventies and this project has become quite overwhelming simple because I want to spent more time out of the house than in the house. The other evening we hiked out to Garden Valley to reminisce about the past. Over the years I have spent a lot of time between First Water Ranch and La Barge Canyon and the old Indian Paint mine in the saddle between Boulder and La Barge.

Take care,

Tom K.

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by LDMGOLD » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:39 am

Kurt,

There are a lot of old shafts made with native ironwood and mesquite out there, however most of them have vanished over the years. The entrance to the shaft was usually very small. The old Mexican tunnels dug around the turn of the century (1900) were usually less than three feet high. They spent very little time removing waste. I made small trays to waste their tunnels with and move the ore, of course if they had any ore. Most of the holes they dug did have any ore in them. The Mexican were primarily the ones who use native material for timbering. Old man Burns dug very small holes when he was working the low-grade copper vein over in Bark's Draw. Chuck Crawford's found this spot and claimed it to be old Spanish diggings and even produce a rock with the date 1532 on it. Bill Blandon, a TV guy, came out and did a documentary on the stone and Chuck's find in around 1975. I have the documentary on a cd somewhere. I I can find it I will post it for you.

Take care,

Tom K.

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by cubfan64 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:47 am

LDMGOLD wrote:Cubfan:

I believe I have about 8,000 slides in chemical free protected holders. I bought a Minolta film scanner several years ago and started scanning a few slides. It is a slow process with the scanner I have. I am thinking about buying a Nikon Professional Film Scanner that you can stack the slides in. I don't know when I will get around to digitizing all of the photographs. My collection room is like Greg Davis, but far from being as well organized or the same size. My room is only 10 x 12 devoted entirely to the Superstition Mountain history. I have about seventy-five original oils and water colors done on the Superstition Wilderness Area dating back to 1948. One of my prizes is an oil done by Peg Aylor and another done by Lucille King. I didn't have the time to spend organizing my collection as Greg did, but I have collected thousands and thousands of items. Just ask my wife. My personal letter collection from people all over the world for the past fifty years exceeds 5,000. My wife is constantly after me to do something. I retired in August of 2009 and I am still thinking about what I should do. I continue my column with the AJ News donating the column entirely to charity and the community. Our favorite charities are Project Help and VFW. I probably should have answered you in a email, however I am in my seventies and this project has become quite overwhelming simple because I want to spent more time out of the house than in the house. The other evening we hiked out to Garden Valley to reminisce about the past. Over the years I have spent a lot of time between First Water Ranch and La Barge Canyon and the old Indian Paint mine in the saddle between Boulder and La Barge.

Take care,

Tom K.
Yup, when I imagine the kind of collection you have, my mind immediately goes to Greg's, but as you said, one could spend a lifetime just trying to organize all of that stuff - as a matter of fact, I think Greg has done just about that :)

It's not just the photographs and slides, but the comments, thoughts and stories behind alot of them that have alot of value too - as you said though, it must be overwhelming to even think about how to preserve everything for future generations. Wish I lived closer - I'd volunteer to help you digitize all those old photos and organize things a bit :(.

Incidently, although it doesn't have a ton of significant "Dutchman Lore" associated with it, I really enjoy Garden Valley and have made it a point to hike there on each of my 4 visits so far. It's an incredibly peaceful place and although I know some of the history surrounding it isn't so peaceful, there's a definite "feel" to the spot that's just hard to describe.

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by LDMGOLD » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:25 am

CUBFAN:

When you visit Garden Valley next time, take time to visit Fish's Treasure Hill site just east of Garden Valley on the right when you drop down into Second Water Canyon. There are a lot of old markings on that hill and also some more modern markings. There are several fine petroglyphs on the rocks along the canyon. Old Frank Fish thought there was a treasure buried under that hill. Old Joe Mays conned a few guys out of some money to help him dig over there for a lost city with a crystal skull. Joe believed there were crystal skulls all over the Superstition Mountains hidden their by the Aztecs, Mayans, Omecs, Totecs, and on and on.

Gregory has devoted his life to the collecting of material about the area. He didn't even take time for a wife or family. I admire him for his dedication, devotion and tenacity for the topic. He certainly deserves to be president of the Superstition Mountain Historical Society's Museum. I first met Greg in 1977. We have collected and traded information since then. The Barkleys were friends of mine as you probably already know. Old Gus Barkley was a friend of dads and mine. Gus died in late summer of 1955. He was certainly a cowman first and nothing else. He was dragged into the Ruth thing because of his friendship with Deputy Jeff Adams. He first met Jeff in 1898 when he worked for Hughes up near Sunflower. We talked several times and most of our conversation centered around cattle, cowboys, family and humor. He loved to tell wonderful wild stories with a straight face. I loved the one he told about the two windmills that were close together. One of the windmill blew down during a raging thunder storm one summer. A dude that had remember both windmill being up ask Gus why the other windmill was gone. Gus responded by saying there just wasn't enough wind to blow to windmills so I took one down. That was a classic humorous joke for Gus. I had a lot of respect for the old cowboy. He was truly a cowboy's hero in my opinion. Excuse any errors, I am not going to proofread this closely.

Take care,

Tom K.

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by silent hunter » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:34 am

He just looked under the wrong hill. Tom

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Re: OLD B/W PHOTOS

Post by cubfan64 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:39 pm

I'll do that Tom - I have my wife concinved to join me this fall for a week around the time of the annual "Rendezvous" in October and I wanted a couple "fairly easy" but fun hikes to take her on - Garden Valley was on my list, so we'll have a new area to explore.

I know a little about your history with the Barkley family, but it's always good to hear more stories :). I've always had the impression that Gus wasn't all that interested in the LDM, but did keep an eye out for interesting things associated with it, and of course knew a whole lot of the folks who went out looking for it and mingled around his ranch. I think some of the stories I heard the last few years had Gertrude being more interested in the mining/gold aspect of the Superstitions than Gus - I believe she even had her name associated with some claims at one time.

Lastly - don't worry about any typo's - anyone who has spent any amount of time on internet forums has learned very well how to read internet speak - besides, I haven't seen many typo's anyways.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:17 pm

Cubfan:

Gertrude's interest didn't develop until long after the Ruth case. She talked often to Erwin Ruth who tried to convince her that his father was murdered. She then acquired an interest in the story, but no real urge to search for gold. Many LDM historians have over reacted to information that has surface involving the Barkleys. To be honest there are so many liars that have stretched the truth out so far it is difficult to find the origin. The Barkleys were Arizona pioneer cattle people and had spent a life time involved in the industry. I know Gus visited with Ruth prior to his trip into the mountains and did everything to discourage him from going in because of his frail condition. Just because he wanted to search for a gold mine did not mean he was in good condition. The summer heat and terrain means certain death if you don't understand how to survive under such severe conditions. Ruth had almost died in the Anza Borrego Desert in 1919 when he allegedly searched for the Lost Peg Leg or maybe it was the Lost Peralta Mine. He shattered his hip in a fall that almost cost him his life. The large silver plate in that hip is what identified his remains when they were discovered in January of 1932, after the skull was discovered in December 1931. No point in expounding all the details because many people already have their minds made up as to what happen. A dear friend of mind had E.D. Newcomer's journal about the events that occurred on those days December 8th,9th,10th, and 11th 1931. I read that journal and I am satisfied with Newcomers version of what happen. I am sharing this with you because there are so many version out there and everyone is trying to out guess even the people that were actually there in December of 1931. Good luck with all the research and especially your success in tracking down Eleanor Ruth Clark. Bob and I worked on that for years because of all the stuff that Gene Reynolds had told us about Eleanor and the Ruth diary he had seen at the Ruth home in Washington D.C. I do know Reynolds did interview Ruth's sister and claimed she was the source of most of his information. I never really believed a diary or Peralta book ever existed. If it had Erwin would have been trying to get the top dollar for it from the many Dutch hunters that had contacted him from Worst, Reser, Peck to Glen Magill. I hope this has enlightened your search. Keep up the good work Paul and try to be totally non-bias.

Every summer some one usually dies in the mountains as a result of heat and over doing it. Personally, I am at that point in life I will not risk doing the mountains in the summer months. Bob Corbin and I both have decided it is time to apply a little common sense. We both have spent time in those mountains during June, July and August. Even September and October can be scorchers also. I taught desert survival for the college during the 1970's and 1980's. I have always advocated to always tell somebody where you are going and when you expect to return. Hikers, prospectors, and the curious who don't respect these words can get into serious trouble in those mountains. I have seen it happen time and time again over the past fifty years or so. I have even had students who did not listen to good advice and found themselves in life-threatening situations.

My post is a little long, I probably should be sending emails. However, I have nothing to hide in giving sound advice to people who want to venture into the mountains at any time. One life saved is worth all of the time involved in warning people to be careful and listen to good advice.
The Superstition Search & Rescue website provides good information about hiking in the desert.

I promise to keep these post shorter in the future.

Take care,

Tom K.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by gollum » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:29 am

Tom,

Don't you dare apologize for giving potentially life saving information. There are a lot of people out there (to this day) that don't have ANY idea how dangerous the combination of heat, mountainous terrain, and lack of common sense can be. After all, when you look at the Superstition Mountains on Google Earth, they are only two inches by four inches! HAHAHA MOST people also don't understand just how relative, the term "distance" is. In those mountains (just like most of mine here in California), they look at a map and see only ten miles as the crow flies from the North edge to the South edge. They think it would be a fairly easy hike to start at the Salt River and end in Florence. They don't realize that the combination of cutbacks, high steep canyon walls, and raises and drops in elevation turn that easy 10 miles into an unbearable 20-25 miles. Also when you are in those steep canyons, not many people are adept enough to go over. They have to go wherever the canyon takes them (which, as Murphy's Law states, is usually deeper into the mountains).

No Tom, you make your posts as long as you want. Anybody who doesn't read them and take heed deserves everything they find! ;)

I served in Special Operations Units in both the US Navy and the US Army. I was trained everywhere from Cross Country Skiing in Norway, to the Jungles of Central America, to several countries in the Middle East.

You lose two quarts of water an hour in the desert just walking with no gear. Add a 40 pound ruck and associated equipment, and the amount jumps to 2.5-3. If you are doing any strenuous labor or climbing with your hiking, add another half quart to that. That is water you HAVE to replace! At loosely eight pounds and four quarts in a gallon, that means for a four hour hike in the Summer, you should carry "AT LEAST" three gallons of water. THAT IS 24 POUNDS EXTRA IN YOUR RUCK (and that's not giving yourself any extra)!

Anybody that doesn't understand all the ins and outs of desert and mountain survival, please go to my website, and in the reference section, feel free to download any and all of the Military Manuals I have there regarding survival in ANY situation. There are also books and old maps. Everything is free to download and there are no advertisements or viruses. I guarantee it.

http://www.1oro1.com

Here is the direct link to the Reference Section:

http://1oro1.com/reference/index.html

Best-Mike

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