Joe itsari-tsu-i,

I wrote in my post what I said was my opinion and the way I see it.
spirit wrote what his opinion was and what he believed to be true.
Somero wrote what his opinion was on the subject.
You can write whatever you think your opinion is.
It doesn't matter. There isn't a winner so give it a rest. You can believe whatever you want and thats good with me. Can't you just listen to what others have to say and leave it at that ? This isn't a contest to go on and on until everyone gets tired of answering your constant challenges, questions and statements of supposed facts so you can claim victory. This WAS a good topic until a couple people turned it into a third grade pissing match.

Steven Trost

Steven,

If I understand you correctly, your opinion, Somero's and Spirits, are all that are relevant in this thread. The only one with "facts" here, are the three of you. My facts are.......questionable.

If you could provide the facts which you believe are "supposed", I will be happy to provide sources for you. You are the one who turned this into a "third grade pissing match" by challenging the truth of my statements. I only asked for clarifications of what others have written.

Over the years, I have been challenged by other self proclaimed Native American experts, and I have often questioned their facts. I don't mind those questions of my own knowledge, and will stay in the debate until the real facts are revealed, by whatever evidence is available. If I turn out to be wrong, I will be the first to
admit it.

If you find my posts of such little value, why do you feel the need to comment?

Go dakehego nohwich'i' hasdzih akoh.

Joe Ribaudo

*sigh*

This is exactly the reason I stated this...

Paul,

I certainly agree with what you are saying. This topic is Edward S. Curtis books and stories".

Once it was sidetracked into Apache religion, it more properly belonged in, "Native American history within the Superstitions discussion". In that topic, Apache history includes their religion, the white man's religion, which many Apache have adopted and the mixture that makes up "Holy Ground".

It's a subject that generates a lot of interest and should be open to opposing opinions and debate. Is it a lot of work to move the posts over to that topic?

Perhaps this topic has gone as far as it could. Not much left to say about Curtis?

Take care,

Joe

cubfan64,

Seriously cubfan64 ?

Of all the unique, original, firsthand and amazing information that was being discussed here on this topic, you decided the only thing worth commenting on was one short comment on religion that could have been taken in several different ways ?

Thats what you felt was the only thing worthy of a comment in this thread ?
Seriously ?

This is the only topic I have ever posted on and was having a fantastic dialog with respectful and intelligent people about issues none of us have the opportunity to learn anything about, and you decided the only interesting thing worth your posting is some short religious comment that the poster may or may not have been right on the money with. Thats what you got out of 4 solid pages of unbelievable facts and unique insight ?

I posted only a few very respectful comments to you because I thought they may have been helpful. I stated what was my personal opinion on the attacks that were being thrown around and that didn't go down very well with the resident authorities. I think the whole thing was pre planned to get spirit to leave and it seems to have worked. Nice job. You can both can be proud.
This was the only topic I have ever posted on here and will leave this topic now and let you have your playground back.

Steven Trost

I'm awfully sorry you see it that way Steven, especially since I started the thread. I have my e-mail posted in a number of places on the site since I'm a moderator for a couple of the sections - I had no idea people felt that way about my comments on this thread - I wish you would have e-mailed me and let me know.

I found spirits's posts to be really interesting, and they inspired me to begin reading some of Goodwin and Opler's works and also Eve Ball, Eva Watt and a number of other authors. Since the amount of knowledge I have about Native Americans can fit in a thimble currently, I didn't have anything to add to the conversation.

I made what I thought was a very respectful short comment to spirit in the hopes that he or she might see how their statement could be misinterpretted.

I apoligize to spirit, to you and anyone else who was posting in this thread. Hearing stories and Native American thoughts directly from someone whose ancestors experienced it and who I'm sure still experiences much of it today is something truly valuable and if I derailed that by my comment, I'm very sorry to everyone. You may think it was my intention to "run spirit off" but you couldn't be further from the truth.

I saw your comments, but didn't realize they were directed at me - I thought they were directed solely at Joe, so I left the two of you to discuss whatever you wanted to. Had I known they were directed at me as well I would have asked you to e-mail me or asked for your e-mail. If you think Joe and I made some secret pact to derail this thread, I can only suggest you ask around - you'll find that while I can be friends with someone, that doesn't mean I agree with everything they do or say, but I'm not into using a forum as a place to "play games." I never have and I never will - it isn't my style.

The only resident authority here is the moderator "somehiker." I apolize to you too Wayne - you know me and you know I wouldn't have done anything to purposely antagonize spirit or anyone else into leaving.

I often wish people could see into another person's heart.

Mr. Trost,

I was respectful with my posts, until I was insulted and you resorted to name calling.

You, sir, took it upon yourself to attempt to censor my opinions on a public forum,
simply because I asked questions instead of nodding my head at everything that was being posted.

Paul has paid his dues here, and is respected by most of the posters. He has been even handed and showed considerable restraint in a number of cases.

Don't let the door hit you in your.......burro.

Joe Ribaudo

[quote="i-tsari-tsu-i


You, sir, took it upon yourself to attempt to censor my opinions on a public forum,
simply because I asked questions instead of nodding my head at everything that was being posted.

Paul has paid his dues here, and is respected by most of the posters. He has been even handed and showed considerable restraint in a number of cases.

Don't let the door hit you in your.......burro.

Joe Ribaudo[/quote]


Ahhh Joe This is waterboy, ahhhh may I call you Mr. H-2-0 ahhhhhhh
Mr HIGHLY 2 OPINIONATED! Now Joe, I believe the last moderator banned your Burro: I mean, I may Be wrong-- --- of course.

Take Care and Good Health JOE!

Babymick1

BM,

"Now Joe, I believe the last moderator banned your Burro".

Ya just have to know the history of our relationship. It goes back to 2002. You come to the Rendezvous and win that $100 and I will be happy to say I was wrong, and apologize. At the same time, you can talk to some of that moderator's old friends.

Good luck,

Joe

All:

I do not have the time this morning, to offer a lengthy opinion on the last few pages of comments.
I have decided to leave this thread unaltered, at least for another day, in order for you all to re-examine your own thoughts about spirit's personal beliefs.
It may help us to better understand this exchange of ideas if we review the history of the conversion of the native people to Christianity, and how it was accomplished.
As just one example of the history which should be taken into consideration by all of us, spirit is at most,one generation removed from the "residential-school" era.
http://vimeo.com/10098173

Regards:somehiker