Sometimes the heart of the roasted crown would be cut out and set aside while the pounding of the sheets was being done. The heart is the sweetest and tastiest part of the agave and was prized by everyone, especially the children. Roasted agave was eaten fresh and dried, sometimes made into a gruel and when the berries of Sumac or walnuts were added, was a deliscious and highly nutritious meal.

A highly potent fermented drink was made from the heart of the agave (mescal) plant. Some of the crowns would be left in the roasting pit until they began to ferment. They would then be taken out and ground up and were boiled. When the liquid boiled down to a syrup it was poured off and allowed to stand until it was completely fermented. Sometimes this fermented mescal would be mixed half and half with tiswin (tuluipia). Tiswin is the syrup of fermented maze corn. The mixture would be allowed to sit for four days. The mixture had to be consumed within 2-3 days or it would spoil. This produced an extremely potent alcohol which could not only produce drunkeness but also halucinations and visions.

spirit

Somehiker,

Thanks for correcting this old man about Picketpost not being an actual fort.

I will correct myself once again, now on the Pinalero Apache. I have never looked into the history of Native Americans, I only read what turns up on my treasure searches.

While reading some Spanish archives concerning old mines in what was the old state of Sonora, I learned about the Indians of that area. It was after all the Spanish who named the rivers, mountains, towns, animals, and native tribes.

A pine tree is called "pino" in Spanish, and "pinal" is a pine grove, or any pine covered area. Thus the name of the Pinalero who was the Apache of the Pinal Mountains.

An agave heart resembles a pineapple, that's why it is called the "piña"

Spirit,

Other products of the agave used today were probably used long before. These are the agave worm which is a butterfly larva, and the agave mushroom.

Mesquite wood is the most popular for cooking around here in South Texas, but we have to wait until we have embers. This is because mesquite has tar, not as much as pine, but you can't cook meat in an open mesquite flame without getting soot on it.

Live oak on the other hand, has no tar, and is perfect for cooking meat in an open flame, so your description of the choice of woods for roasting the agave hearts makes real sense. I am assuming most oaks share the same characteristics.

One other thing I read on the Spanish archives was that in some mines, the miners would run into a hard rock that they refer to as "caballo". I can't seem to find out what type of rock this is, and if it is found around Picketpost Mountain, or any other place in the Superstitions? Don Jose "ayuadame por favor".

Homar

coazon de oro,

ya-a-teh shils aash, (hello my friend)

You are right in your words. It is my belief, as is the belief of the San Carlos Apache, the name of the "Pinal" mountains originated with the Spanish and Mexicans. My clan never knew these mountains as such. The words Pinal and Pinalero were attributed to us by others. All Apache who are identified by white men as Pinal, are really Tiis Ebah Apache. That is how we called ourselves. Tiis Ebah means, Cottonwood trees there, and we called ourselves the Tiis Ebah Nnee (Cottonwood tree people). We are known today as the Pinal Apache. In the old times before the reservations, we were some 60 seperate clans. The name Tiis Ebah originates from a place in the Pinal Mountains known today as, the wheatfields.

I am decent of the tuhana-ne clan, (across the water people), we were also known as the tudilxili or, black water people. The tuhana-ne clan was closely related to the tuagaidn clan. Tuagaidn means, whitewater people. My clan was allied with 4 other clans, the iya-aiye, the tuhagaidn, the tenadoljage and the tsetean. This alliance came about because the 5 clans followed a common shaman. His name was hacki-yo-ba-dza (angry he goes out to fight). His son, agoit-a-ye, later became the leader of the clan alliance. With the coming of the white man and the reservations, these clans gradually diminished and either merged with other clans or disapeared completely. Today, the majority of San Carrlos Apache are from the Tiss Ebah clans.

Yes, Emory oak is an excellent wood for not only roasting agave but for any cooking. The Emory oak is slowly disapearing and scrub oak is taking it's place in the mountains.

I believe the hard rock you refer to in the ground near Picketpost Mountain is called caliche. It is a whitish gray rock, very hard like concrete and is abundant in the area.

ka-dish-day

spirit

Homar:

I had always assumed that the "Pinalero" was attributed to those Apache living in the Pinals area.
But sometimes my long-held assumptions require revision, due to other possible explanations.
Our conversation with Spirit had raised the possibility of a link between the spanish reference to "pina" and their name for the people who harvested the agave.

Spirit:

Once again, thank you for your input to these topics.
We explorers of both the topography and the human history of the Southwest often find ourselves as deeply immersed in the search for understanding of the lives of those who lived there long before as we are in the treasure legends which followed. Because of this, our conversations often drift into areas where few have little more knowledge than what can be accumulated by reading only that which has been published in various books and periodicals.
There are times, all to frequently, where our discussions have devolved into personal bouts of "one-upsmanship" and thinly veiled insults,usually at the hands of those same few who truly deserve the honorary name of "walking eagle". Hopefully, that has come to an end on this website, and I look forward to reading more of your well written and informative replies to our questions, as well as any which you may have for our members.

Regards:Somehiker

ya-a-teh somehiker, shils-aash,

I do not own a computer of my own so I cannot write here often. I must travel from my home a distance to where a computer can operate. I understand your words and thank you for them, asoogd. I cannot and do not speak for all Apache. I can only speak for my clan of the tuhana-ne, Pinal Apache. Other clans and bands had different experiences of which I do not know all the details. If you understand one thing about the Apache you should know we were not all one people with the same history, experiences or ways. It is good the questions you ask. It helps us both understand each other and our ways and thinking. I went to the college at Eastern Arizona, I still have much to learn from the white world. My misconceptions are many and my understanding is not nearly what it should be. Few white men truly try to understand the Apache, even fewer Apache truly try to understand the white man. Together, if we speak from our hearts, we can bridge that gap.

ka-dish-day

spirit

Hello spirit, my name is tom.just reading your writings everyone can see that you are a good man.my ancestors are from arizona and california. I'm sopose to have some yaque, my cousin would take her daughter to the reservation to learn dances but I was never told anything and all the distant relatives are many but never met or are dead.
Where are the mountains that you live in located? Are you told by your elders any storys of treasures? I hope that one day we can meet each other. Untill we talk again take care and I hope we can be friends.

ya-a teh the hunter,

The mountains where I live are the Natanes mountains, they are in the northern part of the San Carlos Apache reservation. They are a small group of mountains rising 7000 feet in elevation. They are located just south of the Black River, the Natanes plateau seperates them from the Black and Salt River. It is a remote area, few roads, many trees, many animals.

The Tiis Ebah (Pinal Apache) have a long history of conflicts with the Spanish, Mexicans and Americans. Many battles with soldiers, settlers and miners. Some came into our country to take the land, others came to take the metal from the ground. They were all the same to us, we did not distinguish between their intentions. The soldiers came first, the miners followed and sometimes both came together. Many stories passed down throughout the years of their coming and the battles that were fought. The Mexicans and Americans have their history and versions of what transpired, the Apache have theirs. Often the two conflict each other. There were so many bands and clans of Apache, each of them fought their own battles and had their own stories. Much gold and silver was taken from our mountains. Much gold and silver and material was taken in raids of revenge. Many died on both sides. It is dificult to distinguish the stories of the white man and his treasure, to what the Apache know. The stories were not remembered and told the same as the white man told them.

ka-dish-day

spirit

Spirit,my granfather told me how difficult to it was for your tribes, that you were all bravery fighters.yous did what you had to do for your people.your people are very close and have good hearts.
My ancesters were there when it was mexico.my family orabuena.they were first law enforcement. The rosas were there and some had gone to los angeles with priests to help help settle.and the figuroas were in arizona.I do not know any of them now.
Read some of what I posted on mission treasures and the miraculous medal. ITS ALL TRUE, ARE YOU A TREASURE HUNTER?
E-MAIL ME ANYTIME soon have TROSAS48@GMAIL.COM

Hello coazone de oro, where do you live and hunt.?

The Wild Horse Desert, La Salle county Texas.