The Peralta-Fish Map

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Matthew Roberts
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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Matthew Roberts » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:19 am

Frank Fish Home, Museum Amador, Ca..jpg
Cubfan 64,

The stone building on the Right in this photo was Frank Fish's Museum in Amador, California. Fish lived in a small trailer in back of the Museum and in 1965 he was found dead (gunshot wound) in the office of the Museum.

Al Reser was the man who owned the original Peralta-Fish Map. He purchased it from Fish's good friend Bill Schafer after both Frank Fish and Lake Erie Schafer had passed away. Al Reser eventually donated the original Peralta-Fish Map to the Superstition Mountain Historical Society in Tempe/Apache Junction Az.

Now here's the part of the story most people don't know about Frank Fish and the Peralta-Fish Map.

Al Reser knew Frank Fish long before Fish ever became friends with Bill and Lake Erie Schafer. Al lived in Anaheim California and worked for Ford Motor Company in Torrance. Frank Fish lived and ran a gold and treasure store and museum in Costa Mesa, Ca. just a few miles south of Al's place in Anaheim. Al being interested in gold and treasure stories was a regular at Fish's place.

As far back as the 1940's Al saw the Peralta-Fish Map and heard the story of how Frank Fish had acquired that map in Mexico sometime around 1933.

Frank Fish was a strange sort of man and would sometimes tell a story then the story would change. Fish told Al that he was a descendant of the Peralta family of old Mexico and that is how he acquired the Peralta Map. Years later he told people the map originated with another man, Pedro Francisco Peralta of Los Angeles. Finally Fish told Al that in the 1930’s Erwin Ruth had given him the name of a Peralta living at Mexico City and Fish traveled there and after long negotiations acquired the map from the Peralta. Al never knew which story was the right one but he knew Fish had the map and Al believed it was authentic. It should be noted Al saw this map long before anyone tried to “enhance” it and ruined the coloring of the map.

The question has always been, is the Peralta-Fish map one of the same maps Adolph Ruth had with him in 1931 when he was found dead in the Superstition Mountains? Al tried searching for the Peralta-Fish treasure before the Schafer’s ever became friends with Frank Fish. Fish told Al things about the map that might help him find the treasure but Al was busy with work and his family and had little time to devote to trips to Arizona and the Superstitions.

Later on when Al retired from Ford and his wife had passed away, Al packed up and moved to Apache Junction, Az. One of his first searches in the Superstitions was to look for the Peralta-Fish treasure. He never found it but he believed the map was authentic none the less.

Al told me this story and showed me the Peralta-Fish map while visiting at my ranch north of New River one day. Al said he never believed Frank Fish killed himself and even though many of Fish’s personal belongings went missing after his death, Al retained many notes and photos of Fish and his work that he compiled dating back to the early 1940’s.

Matthew Roberts
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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:10 am

Matthew Roberts wrote:Choto,

I'm not sure where you are getting the information that George Willing died of exposure but that is not the case. His death in Prescott was well known, well recorded and well attended.

Willing died in the Juniper Hotel in Prescott on Cortez street March 19, 1875. He was fine and in no undue distress the evening before his death. The cause of his death was never determined but it is believed he died from alcohol poisoning. Willing dying of exposure in late March in Prescott is not very likely. The average temperature around Prescott in mid-late March is around 50 degrees and no snow in Prescott that time of year. I think someone mixed some stories, or at his death the story of his earlier brush with exposure was told and people just assumed that is how he died. Somehow it got reported that way and the exposure story took life.

Yes, I did mean Frank Fish was the descendant of Pedro Peralta and Miguel Peralta. If you read Frank Fish's own account he says as much. Frank Fish's contact in Sonora was his own Peralta family (according to Frank Fish).
As far as Al Reser knew, Frank Fish and Frank Peralta were not directly related from the same branch of the Peralta family.

Matthew
Matthew Roberts,
My source is the Wiling obituaries which mentions nothing about murder. Willing's travel plans were published as early as Jan. 10. He and his brother were traveling overland from New York, reaching Albuquerque on 23 December, 1873.

Willing arrived in Prescott on Wednesday, 11 March, 1874 and filed his claim the next afternoon (Thursday, 12 March @ 4:00) with Yavapai County Recorder Ed Wells.

You wrote that Willing died on March 19. 1875.
Willing was buried on the 19th of March, 1874.

As I wrote, Doctor George M. Willing died of exposure (and privation) late on the 12th or, early on the 13th of March, 1874.


THE WEEKLY ARIZONA MINER (PRESCOTT, AZ),
Friday, March 20, 1874, First Edition, Page 3.

(From Saturday's Daily)

DEATH OF DR. WILLING.
This sad event occurred last night, at the lodging house of Mr. R.E. Elliott, in this town, and was, we learn, brought on by exposure and privation. We stated in yesterday's paper, that the Dr. arrived here from the States, via New Mexico, on the previous evening. Soon after his arrival he made haste to visit us, when we learned that his object in again visiting the Territory was to secure title to some mines claimed by the Willing mining and exploration company in the vicinity of Black Cañon creek, and a Spanish grant on the Gila river, to which grant a French count was, he said, preparing to lead a colony. Dr. Willing first came here in the summer of 1864, at the head of a well appointed prospecting party, which operated for several months in the country south _ _ _ _ of Wickenburg. A year or more later, he departed for the States with very rich specimens of quartz, etc., was attacked by Indians and lost most of his property. The next time we heard of him was in 1867, when he accompanied the Stimpson party from Philadelphia to Mohave county, where Mr. Stimpson and others were murdered by Hualpai Indians, while looking at the mines. Dr. Willing remained on the river, and by so doing, saved himself from the savages. He then returned to the East, where he remained until a few months ago. He had his faults, not the least of which was the habit of stretching the truth, but was, on the whole, a bold adventurer and intelligent man. His native State is, we believe, Pennsylvania. He leaves a wife in the East.


THE WEEKLY ARIZONA MINER (PRESCOTT, AZ),
Friday, March 20, 1874, First Edition, Page 3.

A Sad Sight. - Little wonder is it that a feeling of sadness swept over those who yesterday witnessed the burial of Mr. Kerr and Dr. Willing - two men who but a short time ago hoped to live to see Arizona - the country of their adoption - a prosperous, populous and wealthy State in the Union. They were buried side by side, and the words spoken by Rev. G. A. Reeder, who stood between the new made graves, brought tears from the eyes of those who in life knew the departed and who had never before witnessed a dual burial in this new country. It was a sad day in Prescott and the event, with its lesson, should not be lost upon those who by wrong indulgence are every day driving nails in their coffins.



Even more important and something you will have to reconcile is the fact that the Peralta grant began life as the PERALTO grant. It is signed Miguel Peralto.

"I went immediately to Arizona in there, after much patient research and a trip to Mexico, learn that the Willing title was purely mythical. The way of it was this: October 20, 1864, in Black Canyon, Yavapai County, Arizona, their existed in mining camp, the principal persons of the camp being Dr. George M. Willing of St. Louis, Don Antonio Pablo Peralta, his son Miguel Peralta, Don Jose Ybarra, M. Bernatto Guinness, Don Machado, Don Manuel Ramon and Charles Lovejoy, a friend of Willing. Among these originated the idea of the pearl to grant. Another mythical person executed a deed of this parole grant to Dr. Willing, the paper reciting that the grant had been seated to the father of the maker of the deed by the king of Spain for military services in 1758 and that he had been forced to abandon it on account of a hostile Indians. It embraced 300 Square leagues of land located along the Gila River, 30 leagues from east to west by 10 leagues wide, resting it's western border upon the eastern line of the Pima reservation.

One of the alleged witnesses M. Bernatto Guinness, was a Frenchman who afterward located in business in Los Angeles, California, but died before he explained his part in the matter, as did also Don Antonio Pablo Peralta. The only other Mexican, Don Rafael Machado of Rosario, Lower California, affirmed that a Spenard name to MIQUEL Peralta made the deed. The writing was more that of Don Pablo, and he sued it the hero of Willing's tail better than Miguel Peralta. Becoming certain that Pinalto, the name given as the maker of the deed, was a myth, I forged the documents necessary to shift the title into the Peralta family."




Reavis changed the name after learning that the Peralto grant was fraudulent.

So, the Peralta grant and the supporting documentation that Reavis submitted/produced must be false.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:16 am

I am guessing that the idea of Willing's death by murder has something to do with Budge Ruffner's interpretation of the THE WEEKLY ARIZONA MINER (Friday, March 20, 1874), article. Go back to that post and read the article again. I obviously don't agree with Budge but here is what he wrote:

The Courier, Friday, Sept. 10, 1982
'Baron of Arizona' had quite a scheme

"Reavis told how he had purchased the tile to the grant from one George Willing, a ne'er-do-well miner who had drifted in and out of Arizona since 1864. The line of lies continued: Willing had purchased the title from a member of the Peralta family, one Miguel Peralta, a sick and poverty-ridden citizen of Sonora, who had taken his paltry pay and returned to the coast of his native state to die in a degree of comfort.

Reavis said Willing then recorded the deed in the Yavapai County Courthouse in March 1874. Then, said Reavis, he died the following day, on the banks of the lovely Granite Creek. The cause? "Exposure & privation."

The Weekly Arizona Miner suggested on March 20, 1874 that the death of one Geroge Willing was under strange and unwitnessed circumstance. The Miner failed to follow up, however, and went on about its business of selling ads and damning politicians. The story regarding Willing was correct but no record was ever found to prove the birth, life, or death of a Miguel Peralta".


Just how Budge extracted "strange and unwitnessed" from that article is not at all clear. But he did.

Miguel L. Peralta y Vasques or Miguel Peralto?
Still unclear.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:29 am

Powell explains the source of the Doc Willing murder rumor in the footnote.
It began with Reavis in 1883.

The "Baron of Arizona" Self-Revealed: A Letter to His Lawyer in 1894
Donald M. Powell
Arizona and the West
Vol. 1, No. 2 (Summer, 1959), pp. 161-173
Arizona and the West.jpg
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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Joe Ribaudo » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:03 pm

There are some really good posts being written here lately, but I would caution everyone to not take every statement of "fact" as factual. New revelations from diaries that have not been in the public eye before are especially suspect. Look for authentication of all such documents by reliable sources.

This is not our first rodeo........for most of us.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:38 am

Joe Ribaudo wrote:There are some really good posts being written here lately, but I would caution everyone to not take every statement of "fact" as factual. New revelations from diaries that have not been in the public eye before are especially suspect. Look for authentication of all such documents by reliable sources.

This is not our first rodeo........for most of us.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Joe,
Sage words, "authentication" and "reliable sources."

So, I challenged the claim that Doc Willing was murdered and provided evidence that it was actually Reavis who may have initiated the rumor... years after Willing's death.

Those of you who are familiar with the Reavis confession will remember the name "Lovejoy", "a friend of Willing." Here, in Lovejoy's own words, from a letter to C.D. Poston dated at Tombstone, February 16, 1884:

"A few years ago the Doctor came back overland and lost his horse and came into Prescott on foot, the snow being so deep he could not get his horse along. Arriving in Prescott he found so many of the old boys, as we term it in the mountains, he had to drink and drink and there he breathed his last. He was a very liberal man, good hostess and a very good doctor."


Now reread this:

THE WEEKLY ARIZONA MINER (PRESCOTT, AZ),
Friday, March 20, 1874, First Edition, Page 3.

A Sad Sight. - Little wonder is it that a feeling of sadness swept over those who yesterday witnessed the burial of Mr. Kerr and Dr. Willing - two men who but a short time ago hoped to live to see Arizona - the country of their adoption - a prosperous, populous and wealthy State in the Union. They were buried side by side, and the words spoken by Rev. G. A. Reeder, who stood between the new made graves, brought tears from the eyes of those who in life knew the departed and who had never before witnessed a dual burial in this new country. It was a sad day in Prescott and the event, with its lesson, should not be lost upon those who by wrong indulgence are every day driving nails in their coffins.

This:
"Willing died at Prescott in March, 1874 of "an overdose of whiskey and laudanum-a potent mix if there ever was one."
In Old Arizona -Trimble

And for the skeptical, this:
"THE STORM, which commenced during the night of Saturday last , and continued with unabated fury until late last night, was the worst of this winter's storms, and many people feel thankful for the present lull in the same. All of Sunday and yesterday, the wind from the south and southwest kept driving the sleet and snow, and people who had to face the cutting blast and wetting particles had a very rough time of it. For the first time this very watery winter, animals suffered considerable, yet we have heard of no deaths. On awakening this morning, four or five inches of wet snow were visible."
AZ Weekly Miner 20 March, 1874

Dr. George M. Willing, in my opinion, was not murdered.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Joe Ribaudo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:09 am

Choto wrote:
Joe Ribaudo wrote:There are some really good posts being written here lately, but I would caution everyone to not take every statement of "fact" as factual. New revelations from diaries that have not been in the public eye before are especially suspect. Look for authentication of all such documents by reliable sources.

This is not our first rodeo........for most of us.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Joe,
Sage words, "authentication" and "reliable sources."

So, I challenged the claim that Doc Willing was murdered and provided evidence that it was actually Reavis who may have initiated the rumor... years after Willing's death.

Those of you who are familiar with the Reavis confession will remember the name "Lovejoy", "a friend of Willing." Here, in Lovejoy's own words, from a letter to C.D. Poston dated at Tombstone, February 16, 1884:

"A few years ago the Doctor came back overland and lost his horse and came into Prescott on foot, the snow being so deep he could not get his horse along. Arriving in Prescott he found so many of the old boys, as we term it in the mountains, he had to drink and drink and there he breathed his last. He was a very liberal man, good hostess and a very good doctor."


Now reread this:

THE WEEKLY ARIZONA MINER (PRESCOTT, AZ),
Friday, March 20, 1874, First Edition, Page 3.

A Sad Sight. - Little wonder is it that a feeling of sadness swept over those who yesterday witnessed the burial of Mr. Kerr and Dr. Willing - two men who but a short time ago hoped to live to see Arizona - the country of their adoption - a prosperous, populous and wealthy State in the Union. They were buried side by side, and the words spoken by Rev. G. A. Reeder, who stood between the new made graves, brought tears from the eyes of those who in life knew the departed and who had never before witnessed a dual burial in this new country. It was a sad day in Prescott and the event, with its lesson, should not be lost upon those who by wrong indulgence are every day driving nails in their coffins.

This:
"Willing died at Prescott in March, 1874 of "an overdose of whiskey and laudanum-a potent mix if there ever was one."
In Old Arizona -Trimble

And for the skeptical, this:
"THE STORM, which commenced during the night of Saturday last , and continued with unabated fury until late last night, was the worst of this winter's storms, and many people feel thankful for the present lull in the same. All of Sunday and yesterday, the wind from the south and southwest kept driving the sleet and snow, and people who had to face the cutting blast and wetting particles had a very rough time of it. For the first time this very watery winter, animals suffered considerable, yet we have heard of no deaths. On awakening this morning, four or five inches of wet snow were visible."
AZ Weekly Miner 20 March, 1874

Dr. George M. Willing, in my opinion, was not murdered.
Choto,

I'm with you on this story. Problem is, there are times when people who have no evidence will manufacture some convincing stuff. It's OK to trust, but authenticate. Not saying that's what is going on here, but it's not our first rodeo.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:57 pm

Joe Ribaudo wrote:
Choto wrote:
Joe Ribaudo wrote:There are some really good posts being written here lately, but I would caution everyone to not take every statement of "fact" as factual. New revelations from diaries that have not been in the public eye before are especially suspect. Look for authentication of all such documents by reliable sources.

This is not our first rodeo........for most of us.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Joe,
Sage words, "authentication" and "reliable sources."

So, I challenged the claim that Doc Willing was murdered and provided evidence that it was actually Reavis who may have initiated the rumor... years after Willing's death.

Those of you who are familiar with the Reavis confession will remember the name "Lovejoy", "a friend of Willing." Here, in Lovejoy's own words, from a letter to C.D. Poston dated at Tombstone, February 16, 1884:

"A few years ago the Doctor came back overland and lost his horse and came into Prescott on foot, the snow being so deep he could not get his horse along. Arriving in Prescott he found so many of the old boys, as we term it in the mountains, he had to drink and drink and there he breathed his last. He was a very liberal man, good hostess and a very good doctor."


Now reread this:

THE WEEKLY ARIZONA MINER (PRESCOTT, AZ),
Friday, March 20, 1874, First Edition, Page 3.

A Sad Sight. - Little wonder is it that a feeling of sadness swept over those who yesterday witnessed the burial of Mr. Kerr and Dr. Willing - two men who but a short time ago hoped to live to see Arizona - the country of their adoption - a prosperous, populous and wealthy State in the Union. They were buried side by side, and the words spoken by Rev. G. A. Reeder, who stood between the new made graves, brought tears from the eyes of those who in life knew the departed and who had never before witnessed a dual burial in this new country. It was a sad day in Prescott and the event, with its lesson, should not be lost upon those who by wrong indulgence are every day driving nails in their coffins.

This:
"Willing died at Prescott in March, 1874 of "an overdose of whiskey and laudanum-a potent mix if there ever was one."
In Old Arizona -Trimble

And for the skeptical, this:
"THE STORM, which commenced during the night of Saturday last , and continued with unabated fury until late last night, was the worst of this winter's storms, and many people feel thankful for the present lull in the same. All of Sunday and yesterday, the wind from the south and southwest kept driving the sleet and snow, and people who had to face the cutting blast and wetting particles had a very rough time of it. For the first time this very watery winter, animals suffered considerable, yet we have heard of no deaths. On awakening this morning, four or five inches of wet snow were visible."
AZ Weekly Miner 20 March, 1874

Dr. George M. Willing, in my opinion, was not murdered.
Choto,

I'm with you on this story. Problem is, there are times when people who have no evidence will manufacture some convincing stuff. It's OK to trust, but authenticate. Not saying that's what is going on here, but it's not our first rodeo.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Joe,
After hours of research, I am embarrassed to write that "Doc" Willing remains something of a mystery to me. I can track him thru time fairly easily but trying to second guess his intentions is proving more than difficult. A conman tempted by quick wealth or, a dreamer who simply reached too far?

Why anyone would manufacture evidence to sell an opinion is beyond me. Hopefully, it is more of a misunderstanding, a personal misinterpretation that you are describing than anything nefarious. But, I agree with you in that EVERYTHING should be authenticated which, as you know, is not always possible.

Actually, the older I get, the more I realize just how precious our historical record is.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Joe Ribaudo » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:09 pm

Choto,

The obvious answer is to become the accepted expert on all things Dutchman. What follows will be the "expert's" book. :shock:

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:42 pm

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Choto,

The obvious answer is to become the accepted expert on all things Dutchman. What follows will be the "expert's" book. :shock:

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Joe,
Expert?
One can form an opinion (hopefully based on research) and package it for sale but I am not sure that anyone here can be considered an "expert". Some opinions certainly carry more weight than others but I think that has more to do with personal honesty, insightfullness and a selfless desire to advancing the general knowldge.

I can now write that you are correct about Miguel L. Peralta's geneology.

And more importantly, it seems as if there really is a geneological connection between Clay's Peraltas and Miguel L. Peralta y Vasquez

Absolutly fasinating.

I am going to put it out there for those of you reading this who are activly chasing after Jacob's lost mine. Don't let anyone discurage you from looking.

Its there.

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