Baby Marian - 1931

[egswanso]

Hi Space Cowboy,

I have no connection to this case other then being a fan of Unsolved Mysteries and having some time to kill on a day off from work, but I thought I would share some information I discovered on the some of the people mentioned in this case. I was able to find John & Betty MANSFIELD in the 1930 U.S. Census (ED 93, page 1A), which shows them living in Los Olivos, Maricopa Co. with their parents, Virgil and Joyce Mansfield. According to the Census, at least, John & Betty were born about 1917 in Arizona. I could not find a birth certificate for either one, although AZ birth records from that time are available online. This is not especially surprising since many records are incomplete. John & Betty's father was from Kentucky, their mother from California. It would appear that they met and married in California and lived there until shortly before the birth of the twins. John & Betty had an older brother, Charles (b. ca. 1915) and a younger sister, Fern (b. ca. 1921).

I did not have solid luck finding them later. There are some indications that the family might have moved back to California, but I can't be certain. Given his age, John may well have served in WWII, but again, I can't be certain. I did, however, find SSDI records that COULD be these siblings.

Specifically, I found a John Mansfield (SSN 548-26-2995), born 20 December 1917, who died on 11 August 1988 with a last residence in Avenal, Kings Co. CA. I also found a Betty M. COELHO (SSN 556-46-2776), born on the same date, who died 25 March 1997 with last residence in Longmont, Boulder Co. CO. I can't be certain these are the correct John & Betty within more detailed research, but the DOBs and place of card issuance do match up and I couldn't find another John & Betty with the same DOB the right age.

I could not find Ed & Julia STUART (I did check various spellings) the right ages (30s or so) living in AZ in 1930. That doesn't mean they weren't there, just that I couldn't find them.

Anyway, good luck on anything else you might find!

[kwyatt]

This is why we keep checking back! Thank you.
Kwyatt

[Space Cowboy]

egswano,

Okay, that's miles and miles of research that just leaves me breathless. Social Security numbers. Wow! And I gotta ask, how did you find all that out? I've been spinning my Ford Escort tires in Fish Creek sand over this, and even more recent research, where I start wondering if there's some kind of conspiracy against me. What's your secret? If you don't feel comfortable discussing it here, mys addy is dmsftr@authorsden.com.

[egswanso]

Space Cowboy -

Census records are available from ancestry.com through 1930; genealogy is a hobby of mine and the skills you develop finding your own ancestors generally makes you pretty good finding other people in there too. I found AZ birth and death records online too, but like I said, couldn't find John & Betty.

Generally, records less then 50-75 years old are subject to privacy restrictions, so more recent Census records, birth, and death records aren't public yet, so only provable family members and others with proper purposes can access those.

The SSN and death date information can also be found online, via the SSDI (Social Security Death Index), which is, like its name implies, a list of dead SSN holders. Since SSN numbers are geographically coded, you can tell a little about a person from their number: prior to 1990 or so, you received an SSN number when you started working, so the first three numbers show where you lived when you first started working. People alive, but not working in 1990 (mostly children, I'd imagine) received theirs where-ever they lived then; now, people get them close to birth.

Some obits are available on-line as well, although I couldn't find any in this case; they likely exist, just in newspapers that haven't been digitized yet. Ancestry is a pay site (although it's free at many libraries). SSDI and many state indexes are available at no cost.

[Space Cowboy]

egswanso,

Well, I certainly want to thank you before One And All for everything. A real shot in the arm, and I'll check out these research sources you've brought to my attention.

Now, do you know anything about a prospector that 'crawled across the desert from Banner to the border' who lived in a cave near Moon Valley between 1904 and 1919, named Bill Hill?

Once again, thank you, egswanso.

Space Cowboy

[desert water]

The original story was an AP wire story written by Angie Westerman from the Arizona Republican newspaper. The baby was turned in at the Pinal County Sheriff substation at Apache Junction or perhaps Florence Junction. The story ran on Christmas Day 1931 or the day after depending on the newspaper in which printed. Angie was the Pinal County stringer for The Republican and lived in Florence or Coolidge at the time. Her husband Sam Westerman was chief deputy for Pinal County. There are still family members that remember this.

[Space Cowboy]

That's good info, desert water, and I wouldn't mind talking to them. Could you hook me up? My e-mail addy is dmsftr@hotmail.com.

All help greatly appreciated,

Space Cowboy (Dave Taylor)

[desert wanderer]

Desert Wanderer,

That is a picture from the road across our property, looking south-west in Western Arizona, near Wickieup, roughly 55 miles south of Valentine, as the crow flies. Purty, ain't it?

The story is great, the real-life theme is up-lifting, I think. I'd just like to know a teensy bit more, just to sate my curiosity. Then I'll move on to locating Tom Fox's grave.

Space Cowboy, Can you please post some info relevant to Tom Fox? I cannot seem to find out any info on him, or who he was. By the way, your avatar is very scenic, and it looks very similar to the Cottonwood Cliffs area near Valentine.(we talked about that previously).
Anyway, I would love some info on Mr. Fox. Thanks much!

[Space Cowboy]

Desert Wanderer,

I apologize, I blew it. It's Frank Fox. Here's the link to the June 1940 Desert Magazine where an article appears on page 17 about Frank's murder: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2095338/19400 ... -1940-June. Tim Olla would write DM, July 1940, and point out that the first picture in the article is actually the water trough at Mountain Springs, roughly 15 miles south and two thousand feet higher than the Carrizo Stage Station. Phil Brigandi wrote a piece on it for The Desert Tracks: http://www.physics.uci.edu/~jmlawren/De ... ring06.pdf. There's a drawing of the tombstone and a picture of the grave as it appeared in 1984. Phil gives a whole lot more historical perspective to the story as well. I think Lester Reed wrote about the incident in his 'Old time cattlemen and other pioneers of the Anza-Borrego area', with a picture that would have been taken back in the 1950's or '60's, and the terrain around the grave looks quite a bit different from Phil's. I can't remember if Phil mentions it, but Ella McCain wrote in her book 'Memories of the Early Settlers' that Fox's mother contacted George McCain in 1894, twelve years after the incident, and asked him to put a marker on the grave, which he and another man named Hook did, whittling in a large piece of soft rock with a pocket knife by lantern light, for reasons not very well explained. Edward Davis contends in his DM article that the grave marker had been stolen, but later Happy Sharp wrote DM and said the original stone had been returned, and that the replacement stone someone had carved to mark Frank's grave now was in his curio shop along Highway 80.

In any case, I've never really gone out and looked for the grave, but between the pix and the topo map, I've got some pretty good ideas where it ought to be. Just wondering if anyone else had pix or wanted to share info.

All help greatly appreciated,

Space Cowboy

[Space Cowboy]

Okay, the incident occurred March 29th, 1890, but the headstone pictured in the DM article reads; "Frank Fox, killed 1882". The sketch appearing in Brigandi's article reads; "Frank Fox, Killed April 1, 1890, Age 15", so , just like Johnny Lang's graves, there seems to be multiple headstones over the last 120 years. Phil did his homework, and with absolute certainty, states the murder occurred March 29th, 1890.