rattlesnake combat

User avatar
TradClimber
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:58 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: A Remote Area

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by TradClimber » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:34 am

Lara posted:
even the experts can disagree!
Well... that certainly leaves me out.

I'm still licking my wounds from the Dudleya “Cymosa”.
http://members.desertusa.com/mb3/viewto ... f=6&t=1847
:)

TradClimber

User avatar
reptilist
Posts: 1366
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:43 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Eastern Arizona
Contact:

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by reptilist » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:07 pm

Quoting parts of my Stebbins Field Guide:
C. m. pyrrhus: Small scales usually separate prenasals from rostral. Supraoculars unmodified.
C. m. stephensi: No small scales between prenasals and rostral. Supraoculars often pitted, furrowed or outer edges irregular.

I downloaded one of your pics and zoomed in on the scalation. I can't make out any small scales between the rostral and prenasals, and the supraoculars look irregular to me. Range maps are notoriously inaccurate along the contact zones for many species and from looking at google images of the Mojave river, I would not say that it poses a significant barrier to rattlesnakes. I tend to agree with Kris, but the bottom line is evidently head scalation and that would require more detailed head pictures. I'll post a link on a herpetology forum and see what the concensus is.

User avatar
reptilist
Posts: 1366
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:43 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Eastern Arizona
Contact:

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by reptilist » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:41 pm

Speck rules!
Thanks for playing everyone!
:D

Cascavel1
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:23 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by Cascavel1 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:32 am

Glad to see you finally got your answer Lara. I can see why some were confused in thinking they are panamints. When I originally posted the correction on your Flickr page I figured there would be some who might still believe they are stephensi. Very close to this area are some possible spots where the two species may come close or even in contact. Time and a little more field work will eventually tell I hope.
Congratulations again on a great observation. I was lucky enough to witness this ritual on three occasions last week in stephensi. I have 1,850 photos to go through along with video but when I'm done in post a few so you can compare the two.

Brendan

User avatar
reptilist
Posts: 1366
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:43 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Eastern Arizona
Contact:

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by reptilist » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:24 pm

Welcome to DUSA, Brendan!
:D

Cascavel1
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:23 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by Cascavel1 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:23 am

Thanks Terry.

lara
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:14 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by lara » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:42 am

the herpetologist at cornell definitely IDed the snakes as c. mitchellii pyrrhus.

User avatar
TradClimber
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:58 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: A Remote Area

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by TradClimber » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:31 am

Ouch!!

“...She'll bruise some
She'll hurt some too
But oh they love to watch her strut...”
-Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band-

:)

TradClimber

lara
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:14 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by lara » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:20 pm

Cascavel1 wrote:Glad to see you finally got your answer Lara. I can see why some were confused in thinking they are panamints. When I originally posted the correction on your Flickr page I figured there would be some who might still believe they are stephensi. Very close to this area are some possible spots where the two species may come close or even in contact. Time and a little more field work will eventually tell I hope.
Congratulations again on a great observation. I was lucky enough to witness this ritual on three occasions last week in stephensi. I have 1,850 photos to go through along with video but when I'm done in post a few so you can compare the two.

Brendan
i really appreciate the correction on my flickr page, because that led to more discussion and to what appears to be the correct ID. you saw combat 3 different times!? wow oh wow! can't wait to see some of the photos! i am tempted to go back and see what i can see in the same general area, but i think my car would not be happy.

Cascavel1
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:23 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: rattlesnake combat

Post by Cascavel1 » Tue May 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Your welcome. It's funny cuz I was browsing flickr while I was at a hotel on my herping trip and had just seen some stephensi an hour earlier. The next morning I was out and within am hour I had seen two males go at it and later that day they did it again. Five hours later at a new site it was the first thing I saw. Guess it was my lucky day. Lots of breeding too. Will try to post later.

Post Reply