After 40pages of this post it still comes down to the same thing, people are on the complete opposite ends of the matter. Unfortunately, the environmentalist feel that locking up every acre they can is an acceptable means to a end. ALL off roaders have been blamed for every single thing that has been done by " illegal " off roading. But the reason I side more with the off roaders is I see a willingness to try to stop the illegals and concentrate on what it would take to open up some of the lands. The environmentalists.... Steadfastly hold their position... there is ZERO attempt to try to find a mutual ground, they also over-amplify the implied destruction that " may " occur. They consistently assume that all off roaders are illegal off roaders and will not accept any other scenario. In any negotiations, both sides MUST be willing to listen and understand a opposing viewpoint. And then look for a solution that is acceptable by BOTH SIDES !!! If either side is not willing to do this, then you will not achieve a amicable solution. Most environmentalists feel that any travel on these lands will cause unrepairable harm and eventually turn them into " wastelands ".
I know Spiny, we are still talking about OHV issues, and that is not what you meant, but that is what this subject is about. Yes, we do need environmentalist to keep big business from coming in and turning the land into their private trash pit. And like you said as well, I also agree with Sal on many different issues and am glad that he and his people are here fighting for the land. KUDOS!!!!!! But also like you said, I do not agree with everything he says or is willing to fight for, and the stance on this fight is one of them... But I am willing to listen and discuss any and all viewpoints on this subject. I do not come in with a hidden agenda, but a willingness to try to find a way to satisfy both ends of this disagreement. If you would like to talk about this, pull up a seat and join us, you and anyone else are very welcome to tell us how you feel and why. But be prepared to hear things that you will not agree with, and please be understanding of everyone's view.. We are all part of this in one way or another.....

H

thanks Rep.

Looks like the hornet's nest stirred up once more on this thread.

I too will add another comment.


People who use something that doesn't belong to them wholly, should abide by the ethic of "leave it the way you found it". If all public lands users would follow this principle there would be no argument at all between different users and more land could be left open to multiple use.

People who insist on leaving evidence of their passing, such as deep ruts and barren hillsides should understand when the areas legally available to them begin to shrink.

What is really hypocritical is when well-heeled groups such as dirt riders, who really spend a bundle to drive their expensive machines and their luxurious toy haulers/gas hogs out to the desert, complain of people who want financial help from the government. Riders tearing up the surface of the land because it's "public land", not caring about the cost of restoring the land or maintaining access to the land, yet continually clamoring for taxes to be reduced because they think a mother living in poverty shouldn't receive welfare benefits! We've got people who think this way posting right here on this board.

Welcome back Sal !!!!

First thing I would like to say is yes I do AGREE with you !!!!! Sorry, but I wanted people to see that.... I like the " leave it the way you found it " motto, but one has to find it in order to leave the way it was. What I mean is, that one would have to be in the area which means there has to be roads to allow them in. If the park system made/had acceptable roads ( meaning environmentally ) that would allow people to enjoy and appreciate the beauty of the desert that would be GREAT!!!! And if people abused this opportunity the law should deal with it in a very harsh way. If we cannot tell the good people from the bad people, this is where the special permits would come in....and they should be expensive to keep out the bad element, after all they could go somewhere cheaper and do all the damage they like...

H

Sal, does your statement include campers....non-OHV recreation folks? Seems to me that MUCH more acreage has been damaged by fires set by campers than by illegal OHV use. Using your logic, we should also eliminate recreational camping on public property.

Brew