sal, back to the report, "In 2006, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks received survey responses from 446 owners of registered off-road vehicles. Among the full sample of respondents, 23% “always or sometimes” ride cross-country even though off-route riding is against the rules in Montana and has been since 2001. Over 28% “sometimes or never” avoid riparian areas and wetlands, in violation of rules for federal and state public lands in Montana. "
446 responces out of how many owners? facts not given.

"Sixty-four percent of those surveyed have used an off-road vehicle while hunting. The majority of this hunting subset admits to riding cross-country — over 58% have traveled off of legal routes to retrieve downed game."
Awfully big jump from the 23% and 28% given in report. Nothing was given to back up these claims.

"A significant percentage of riders, 15-20%, admitted to frequently breaking the rules and riding off of legal routes often."
Based on what information, no sources given.

"The university conducted a telephone survey of 335 riders from a random sample of the 50,676 people who registered off-road vehicles with the state in 2000."
Surveys can be very misleading. For example if I wanted to show a given result, and this is only given as an example, that 90% of all car trivers were impaired, by drugs or booze, all I would have to do is find a demographis that fit the requirement (ie locations that have an exceptionaly high number of DUIs and conduct a "random" poll of the population there. The poll would be skewed to show what I wanted. Further this survey was taken in 2000 and the first was 2006. A lot has changed sence then.

sal I understand your frustration at having to live with bad riders and I truly hope something can be done to stop them, but please do not paint all OHV riders as evil, rogue and outlaw.

MIke

Mike there were at least three surveys referred to in the report linked above. You are mixing findings from all three and quoting the sample size from only one of them. Read it again and your questions will be answered.

I found the info to reflect what I have observed of off-roaders in general. I have NEVER seen a rider that stays on designated routes in the 19 years I have lived in the desert. I monitor the tracks and follow them to see where they lead evey weekend.

As I browse through the message boards of riders I see them boasting of how much land they have poached and how easy it is to outrun the cops. Funny you don't observe this as well seeing as a rider yourself you are in a good place to witness the behavior of riders.

Sal, what Mike is pointing out is that the "surveys" cite wildly conflicting information, and there is no attempt to reconcile it. Somebody's information is quite distanced from reality, but we don't have a clue which one it is. Possibly all of them.

Your personal observations don't count for any more than ours. If you are following their tracks, how are you doing that? Illegally on an OHV, or are you merely following as far as your feet can carry you (which, presumably, isn't very far compared to the distance an OHV can travel in the same relative period).

I've seen a few idiots that post of their bravado and illegal activity. Wondering how many are embellishing their stories, and what percentage it actually amounts to. Pretty small, I'm thinking, compared to the total number of OHV households in California (1.9 million households).

Time is no object for me. I have no desire to speed through the desert so that the details around me are lost in a whirl. I follow these OHV tracks on foot. Yeah, it may take me an hour to find out where the tracks are going or where they came from. That's all in a day's exercise.

As far as your other comments about the accuracy of the findings above, you can see that the surveys were all undertaken by responsible organizations whose real interest is in finding out the results of the survey--not in proving a foregone conclusion.

Our personal observations are just that. They do not hold the same weight as the findings of surveys based on interviews wth hundreds of people, though I find that the results do agree with my observations as noted above.

Yes, just like the Vehicle ID study by the DMV.

Brew

sal I posted directly from your link. I found it amazing how the study shows 23% to 28% (a big number to me) going off trail to get the hunt, yet the wilderness group jumps that number to 68%, Nowhere was any information given on how that number was reached. Sal a real survey is extreamly expensive. You have to take the overall demographics of the population surveyed into account, Then make sure the survey (poll) reflects accuractly all of the major groups within that population. That way a true cross section of all groups within the subject group are represented. Simply calling on a phone to people, who may have been pre-selected because of their known views on the subject is not valid.

MIke

Mike, ALL OF THE RESPONDENTS WERE OHV OWNERS WHO HAD REGISTERED THEIR VEHICLES.

sal you do not address how the group who wrote the article increased the percentage of bad riders from the stated 28% to the articles 65%. No source was given for that.

Also, as i have indicated before, the sample size is extreamly small, about 1 in 200. Further if I wanted to do a "random" poll of people who drive impaired I could simply look at known drunk/drug drivers and call them and ask how many admit to have driven while drunk or impaired. The percentages of drivers in that random pool would be extreamly high, and not represenative of th real general driving population. This may not be the case in this study, but who knows?

The point I am trying to say is be cautious about polls as they may not be as random as you are lead to believe.

Mike

My point is here is hard evidence that points to reasons for the rogue OHV rider behavior we have all observed.

sal, looks like we are back to the topic of rogue riders. How many times do we walk this path? All of us in here have agreeded that all rogue riders, hikers, snow play people, equestrians, etc. must be caught and fined. sal, this horse is dead, its fleash is long gone and even the bones are turning to dust. Lets let this one go and try to find ways we can combat the bad rider.

Mike