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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:39 am
Posts: 818
As Sandman advised, County of San Bernardino is responsible for roads in residential areas, Goldseeker.

Would you call CHP if you had a question regarding the street in front of your residence?

EZ


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:57 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:31 pm
Posts: 818
Dodging the question again, LR? :roll: This is about dirt roads in Wonder Valley, not paved streets in front of my house, and the answer lies in what the CHP says, not what you, I, Sandman or Ken say. And answering the question by posing an irrevelant question to me does NOT answer the question. So, situation normal, as far as you answering anything, methinks.


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:27 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Wonder Valley Ca 92277
Dirt roads in my and sandman area are not part of the county maintained road system.

http://www.specialdistricts.org/2/Opera ... 20page.htm

You may like page 12 here http://www.sbcounty.gov/dpw/transportat ... adbook.pdf

You may also like page 3 here http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/land ... 0Final.pdf
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Posts: 818
Ken@WonderValley wrote:
Dirt roads in my and sandman area are not part of the county maintained road system.


Ken, a no place in your references does it state that roads not in the CMRS are private roads. Roads in public easements are by definition public roads.

If you still insist to the contrary, please quote the text that you believe supports your contention.

EZ


Last edited by EZRider on Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:39 am
Posts: 818
Further, Ken, your second reference does not support your contention that you can ride green sticker vehicles on roads in residential areas without written permission from the owner:

"As a result of the urbanization of previously rural areas and the growing popularity of off-highway motor vehicles, the unregulated use of offhighway motor vehicles within San Bernardino County is increasingly jeopardizing the health, safety, and welfare of many residential neighborhoods due to the secondary effects of off-highway motor vehicle use such as noise, dust, smoke, and fumes;

Every person who operates an off-highway motor vehicle upon the private property of another or upon any public property, except a *highway, at all times while so operating shall maintain in his or her possession written permission from the person or entity that is in possession of the property or that owns the property granting permission to operate off-highway motor vehicles thereon;

*Highway. means any road, street, way, or place, publicly maintained and open to use by the public for purposes of vehicular travel. For purposes of this chapter, the term .highway. does not include fire trails, logging roads, service roads regardless of surface composition, any dedicated roadway or easement for road purposes that has not been accepted into the road system of the appropriate governmental jurisdiction, or other roughly graded trails and roads upon which vehicular travel by the public is permitted."


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 1658
EZRider, I'm just wondering why, if you are not in the business of creating illegal OHV opportunities from legal ones, do you insist on creating illegal OHV opportunities out of legal ones? Why would this have any miniscule amount of meaning to you, personally?

You're simply in the business of denying the existence of any and all legal OHV opportunities in the County of San Bernardino aside from Open Use OHV areas, which you clearly consider to be set asides (they clearly are NOT).

How is this NOT just like committing the American Indian to the "REZ"? Your buddy Sandman thinks that's akin to genocide, and is and was patently wrong. How is doing the exact same thing to OHV users not also wrong?

While you may not like my answers, I offer them to you. I expect the same in return.


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:39 am
Posts: 818
Dan wrote:
You're simply in the business of denying the existence of any and all legal OHV opportunities in the County of San Bernardino aside from Open Use OHV areas, which you clearly consider to be set asides (they clearly are NOT).

While you may not like my answers, I offer them to you. I expect the same in return.


When you state something so patently false in regard to my position on OHV use, Dan, don't expect an answer in return.

EZ


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:39 am
Posts: 818
And if you object to the following quote, Dan, be mindful that it was Ken who cited the reference:

"As a result of the urbanization of previously rural areas and the growing popularity of off-highway motor vehicles, the unregulated use of offhighway motor vehicles within San Bernardino County is increasingly jeopardizing the health, safety, and welfare of many residential neighborhoods due to the secondary effects of off-highway motor vehicle use such as noise, dust, smoke, and fumes."

EZ


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 1658
The CHP, a state agency, says the private roads in Wonder Valley are indeed legal for green and red sticker OHV use. The Sheriff, a county agency, says they defer to the County general counsel, which is a political office of appointees, with a political agenda. When push comes to shove, who do you think wins?

Who says there is an easement on those private roads? If I don't have permission to be on them, neither do you. You can't claim them unless you DO have permission due to a public right-of-way or due to an easement, for which there must be just compensation to the owners. There has been no evidence presented that the County ever purchased those private roads from the owners. So, I think it's a pretty good bet they are considered private property.

In any case, why would you automatically take the position against OHV access unless you were against OHV access?


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 Post subject: Re: ATV Trails
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Posts: 818
Dan wrote:
Who says there is an easement on those private roads? If I don't have permission to be on them, neither do you. You can't claim them unless you DO have permission due to a public right-of-way or due to an easement, for which there must be just compensation to the owners. There has been no evidence presented that the County ever purchased those private roads from the owners. So, I think it's a pretty good bet they are considered private property.


I showed Ken his property record which reflected a 35 foot public easement on four sides for the purpose of roadway and utilities.

Dan, not only should you avoid giving financial advice, you should avoid pretending knowledge of real estate law.

EZ


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