Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

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Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by Jim_b » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:05 am

Recently, as I was researching Barry Storm's Jade Mine in the Joshua Tree area for an upcoming DesertUSA article, I ran across an interesting web page. It lists books written about the legend of the Lost Dutchman.

http://www.lost-dutchman.com/dutchman/dutch.shtml

The editor, Doug Stewart, makes the following statement on the website, under "Core Works part one":
"By anyone's estimation, the works to turn to first for information on the Lost Dutchman story are those written by Ely, Storm, Kollenborn, Swanson, Corbin, Jennings, Sikorsky, Blair, Gentry, and Glover. With the exception of Storm's books - and anything by Storm is a major exception - these are straightforward, serious works, not eccentric nor overly speculative."

I'm wondering if Barry Storm's work is an unreliable presentation of the Lost Dutchman story. Other comments on website seem to imply he was not "playing with a full deck". What's your take on Barry Storm?

Jim Hatt

Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:34 am

Jim_b

Barry Storm catches a lot of flack for his style and credibility. I hate to admit it, but I have indulged in some unflattering comments about the man myself. I'm not a "Storm" hater. I am a searcher for the truth. Often the search for the truth collides head on with information Storm's books.

A good example is my story at: http://www.desertusa.com/mag07/april07/lostgold.html on this website.

For an actual assessment of the "Man" himself and not the author. I believe you would have to go to someone that knew him personally. In the article in the link above, there is a foreword that was written by Clay Worst. Clay knew him and offered the following:

Foreword

The subject letter, dated July 23, 1957, in this article is the original that Jim Hatt and I received from Al Reser, and it emphasizes a little known discrepancy between the location of Jenkins’ Lost Lode as stated in the letter and a different location given by Barry Storm in his book Thunder God’s Gold. Storm’s motives in misrepresenting the actual landmarks, and other discrepancies, are unclear, and it may be unfair to second-guess events that happened more than half a century ago. The unknown terms of a written agreement Storm had with Bill Jenkins’ widow could explain. Yet I feel that a general review of Storm’s work is in order.

Storm was thorough in his research. He was knowledgeable in geology, mineralogy and practical prospecting. Unlike most other writers, he actually spent many days on treasure trail in the Superstitions. He was a decent outdoorsman. He and Chuck Aylor were the two best old-time pistoleros I ever saw shoot. Importantly, he was the first writer to attempt to orient his many lost mine tales to specific landmarks in the Superstitions.

Thunder God’s Gold was published in 1945. The accomplishments of others in the intervening decades understandably has cast doubt upon many of Storm’s conclusions. On occasion he was deliberately misled by locals who dismissed him as a young “upstart.”

One evening around the campfire in Storm’s camp, after broiled steaks and a relaxing dollop of “drinking whiskey,” he and I talked about literary license and the inescapable tendency of writers to embellish facts to create readable copy. I was left with the feeling that his published account of his own work and conclusions in the Superstitions are pretty much the way they actually happened. Of the landmarks we discussed, the Jenkins story never came up, so I make no judgment as to the discrepancies Jim Hatt points up in this article.

Storm’s book was well written in a captivating style, and the sophisticated are ill-advised to disparage his work. I still have the much-worn copy that I carried with me into the Superstitions on my first trip, the beginning of my own 57-year search for the Lost Dutchman mine. It has been the adventure of my lifetime. I owe him for that. ~Clay Worst~


Doug Stewart's website is by far, the most comprehensive collection of Literature about the Lost Dutchman Mine you will find on the Internet or anywhere else. Doug's own background knowledge of the subject, and unbiased opinions are highly respected by everyone in the LDM community.

Doug's response to Clay's foreword above was:

"I especially liked Worst's Foreword in which he talks about some of his experiences with Storm and in which he offers as good an assessment of Storm as one is likely to find."

For an assessment of Barry Storm the "Man" I bow to these two "MASTERS" on the subject.

Jim Hatt

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Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by Jim_b » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:51 am

Thanks for the info.

Jim

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Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by cubfan64 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:42 am

Mr. Hatt - I can't seem to find an e-mail address for you. Is that something you would like to keep private, or would you be willing to pass it along as I have something I'd like to comment to you.

Thanks,

Paul

Jim Hatt

Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by Jim Hatt » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:42 am

Paul,

My email address is scattered throughout the forum in several topics. Must be pretty well buried by now. This is the one I use for email relating to things discussed in this forum:

Link to my e-mail address: http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... 169#p12169

Jim


Jim Hatt

Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:09 pm

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THOSE OLD WESTERNS?

AND THEIR STARS?


http://oldfortyfives.com/thoseoldwesterns.htm

This is really Good!

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Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by JoeyW » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:55 pm

Jim, That really is good.
Is there any way I can download it and save it to my computer?

Joey

Jim Hatt

Re: Q&A'S - COMPLAINTS - NO SPECIFIC TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

Post by Jim Hatt » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:53 am

I don't think so Jpey. Did you notice the copyright notice at the end that said it could not be reproduced?

Jim

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I simply can't resist

Post by DocJohn » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:36 am

The only place safe on the U.S.S. Texas, for smoking one's pipe it turns out, is the fan-tail rear of the ship, watching the sea being churned into a bright fluorescent wake in the moonlight.

The travel time - almost over, had been 2 weeks, with a refuel from a coal barge, in the dead of night, off the coast of Florida. It had kept the redolent Dr. Watson awake, the entire time.

The ship being empty now, - the air was safe from the explosive coal dust.

Captain Henry Glass, enjoying a pipe with the Dr., was the first to speak.

"Enjoying the end of the trip.?"

Watson replied, "I been on voyages before, but I'm afraid Holmes is not happy."

"We'll be in Galveston, Texas shortly, for your meeting. I'm sorry this hasn't been a pleasure cruise." the captain said, tamping the pipe slightly.

"Where do you go from here, Captain Glass?"

"We're bound for a refit. This was our sea trial and emergency maiden voyage, rolled into one. Between you and me, Dr. Watson, our hull is too thin. Then right back to these waters for the Cuba threat. Our sister ship, the 'Maine', will be headed there shortly, - but no one never knows in the military, does one Dr.?"

"Too true, Captain."

The ship rounded the bay, and the lights from town lit the waters. Watson noted the the new construction, and even in the dark, a new town was forming.

"I have to go Dr.", Capt. Glass said, as he pocketed his pipe, "We'll need you and Holmes to disembark, within the hour."

Watson watched the Captain head toward the wheelhouse, as he put out his pipe. He headed toward his and Holmes stateroom, and remarked, "I hope this is not another 'Balfour'."



Sherlock was in fact awake, and listening to the raucous happening in the pubs that adorned the wharves, fully expected his wake-up call.

"Hello, Watson! I assume we've arrived?"

"Oh, hello Holmes, I thought I'd have to wake you."

"Not necessary, sir. I've been awake for hours. I can tell from the engines rhythm that we're in Texas. What a marvelous ride!"

Holmes stood from his bunk, and remarked, "At last, we get to see the stones."

Watson turned to see Holmes unbuckling the porthole and taking a great sniff of sea air.

"What stones?"

"Why, the stones we've been sent to America to decipher. The stones found in Arizona."

Watson stood at the door, looking as though he had no idea as to the last statement's understanding and Holmes continued. "Arizona is some portion of the colonies, Watson. Do try to keep up."

Watson pulled out his suitcases, and positioned them on his bed. "Holmes, what stones?"

Holmes looking up from his own packing, said, "Why the ones they've brought us here to examine. One is actually dated 1847. My dear Watson, apparently some ruse is afoot!"

While the docks-men were unloading our bags, we departed the U.S.S. Texas, with a nod to the Captain, who acknowledged from the helm, and at the end of the gangplank there were no less than five gentlemen to meet us - and one carrying a large bag.

I just simply could not resist!

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Re: MY FATHER'S SEARCH FOR THE LOST DUTCHMAN - BY: NORTHCUT ELY

Post by javaone » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:53 am

Hello All,
My wife and I are getting ready to take our first hike into the Superstitions. Don’t worry - it will be a little tester. We are starting at Woodbury trailhead and going to Randolph Creek. If we feel like it we may go a little further towards Tortilla pass. Main goal is to take lots of pictures. Second goal ,of course, is the LDM – You know what they say about luck and rookies.
About 9-10 years ago we took a drive down Apache Trail, that’s when the fire was “rekindled”, the superstitions are beautiful.

Long ago when I was around 9 (I’m 50 now) my father took me to visit his cousin who lived in Apache Junction (we lived in Tucson then). My Fathers’ cousin was a long time LDM enthusiast and spent many of his years searching the Superstitions. He even wrote a book about searching for the LDM. Not sure of the name of the book and I can’t find anything about who this cousin is now…

One story I remember, not sure if I read this in a book or the cousin told it to me, was one of many mysterious happenings during trips into the Superstitions. One night around midnight when they were in the mountains asleep in their tent, their horses were all bedded down and all was quiet, they were suddenly awakened by a rumbling noise. It became louder and louder. Sounded like a stampede of horses coming straight through their camp. They jumped up and out of their tent looking for a place to get out of the way. Frantically looking around they realized that there was nothing there, the noise slowly went away and their horses were not even disturbed – Like their horses never heard a thing.
I always found that story interesting.

Thanks for this forum, it’s very informative and well kept.

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