Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

[MMM]

I am one of the riders like you Historik951
. I admit it has been a while sence I have been on my quad, but I really enjoy going out in the desert exploring old roads, trails and finding old mines and cabins left behind as a reminder of our past. We are being locked out f public lands by a vocal minority who has a lot of political clout. Public lands are being "protected" for "future" generations to look at but not enture into on any kind of mechinized gear. I used to ride in Nevada and the lands are being locked up, not because of destruction by OHV users, but because the wilderness backers the area has the "potental" of being used by OHV owners. Boxer/Fienstine have locked up/converted into wilderness over 10 million acres of California desert. At the time of the 1994 act she promiced not to seek more wilderness, but as soon as the ink dried, people like calwild (a major California wilderness group) and serria club made it known that the 1994 act was not the end, but the beggining of the push for more wilderness. In fact most, if not all public lands not either private or milirary is, in the eyes of these people, prime wilderness lands. They do not want us there, period. I wish there were a middle ground, I would be amoung the first to get just about any permit that would allow me to travel more freely on public lands. But that will not happen. Here is a link to the new wilderness fienstine wants.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/27/335543 ... osals.html

Mike

[Sandman]

My forefathers and mothers met on this continent in the late 1600s. One came on a boat from Holland, the other was a woman of the woods. It's really interesting tracing the ancesters. The native women always had a single christian name, the ones of European decent always had at least two names. Maybe that explains a lot about my deep respect for the earth. I bought a new 4x4 yesterday. How else am I going to get across central Nevada and western Utah? And, I gotta carry my fishing poles and some tucked away hunting gear? Having land in the Southern California, I get to see what happens to an illegal OHV trail after it rains like it did in December. I believe we should mark the legal routes and confiscate the vehicles of those identified of doing otherwise. There were mc riders out doing it again today. Closure is not the solution. Enforcement is. I hear them drones can take clear pictures. Why not use em in problem areas?

[historik951]

You know they could also use those wildlife motion detector camera's, that way they would be able to see the tag quite easily.... btw Sandman where is your property in SoCal ??? Might be close to me...

Thx
H951

[Sal]

tags too small to be used as ID from more than a foot away.

[LeeVW]

historik951,

I like the idea of large ID plates, and I also like the idea of stiff penalities. The problem is there is no money for officers in the field. Instead, the BLM uses volunteers to erase illegal roads, build fences, and install barricades and signs. I would be fine with all that IF certain people in our government would stop closing additional areas!

Dan,

My experience has been pretty much as you described it - bad roads bring good people, and good roads bring all the inconsiderate idiots. The closer you are to populated areas, the larger the crowds and the lower the quality of the people. Not to say there aren't idiots far out there too - they can be found spinning donuts many miles from the nearest paved road - but I have found that most people behave themselves when they get closer to other people out there, possibly out of fear of getting shot. Personally, I have found that the best time to explore the desert is Mon-Thurs.

It sounds like Sandman has a serious problem in his area, and it's very difficult to find a solution. He doesn't want closures (which aren't respected anyway), but something has to be done. Again, actual enforcement is the key, but how do we get the funding? And how do we stop those senators from closing more land?

Lee

[reptilist]

What about officially empowered citizen volunteers? like a Sheriff's posse dedicated to a particular problem? I know I'd go for that with regard to protecting the rivers in my area from slob users. I'd be a River Ranger if there was such a thing.

[historik951]

Hi Gang,
I think the best way to generate funds is by the tags themselves, one would not need a tag for the " common area's ". However, to go where the areas may be more sensitive and to " weed out " undesirables, the purchase of the special tags would help generate some monies. Plus the powers could limit the type of vehicle, meaning 4x4 street legal only, no quads or bikes. I also like the idea of citizen volunteers, maybe a combination of the two, possibly even retirees looking for something to do ( plus I'm sure they won't cost as much as a full-time ranger ). Sounds like we are forming a plan ???? Cooooooolllllll

H951

[Sandman]

Your right historik, 951 is the area where my winter home is. Later today, I will be heading into the 760 zone of the northern san bernardino mountain/high desert transition zone where I own a few acres and a cabin. It's that area which is a mix of USFS/BLM is where the problems affecting neighboring lands exist. Public land is for us all to enjoy. The trouble I see is a huge money making corporate industry that influences the sale of certain types of motor vehicles. Lets take the Deep Creek Non Motorized Vehicle area for example. Steep, rugged and remote, home to wild trout waters and habitat for endangered species, there are people who live in places like Hesperia and Apple Valley who ignore the law and ride their dirt bikes dirt bikes in there, causing extensive erosion and damage to the land. Bordering the USFS is the BLM managed Juniper Flats area. Home to a historic cattle grazing allotment, our government has fenced the USFS/BLM border. Never the less, lawless motorcycle riders have cut these fences, trespassing on lands controlled by both agencies. While out hiking, I have been intimidated and harassed by trespassing illegal riders who attempted to run me down. Since its mountain lion country and I have encountered them more than twice, I hike with a pistol. I was so in fear of my well being and safety from these motorcycle riders, I felt the need to not only draw my firearm, but also to fire it at a nearby rockpile. The illegal riders took off deciding that I wasnt worth bothering out in that remote region. Since I was over 100 yards off their illegal trail, I could only interpet their actions of riding motorcycles at me at an accelerated speed as a danger to my life and limb. Will I protect myself when facing danger, you betchya!

[LeeVW]

Reptilist,

I would be all for citizen volunteers! Give them the power to make contact with people, distribute maps and other information, and even log names and vehicle registration information. I would think that people would think twice about riding illegally if they knew they were "on the radar" of law enforcement.

historik951,

Allowing only vehicles which are highway licensed into certain areas would be an excellent alternative to additional Wilderness. If OHVs are causinig the majority of the problems, then only OHVs should be banned from the area. Some areas are suitable for OHV riding, others are not. Some of the sensitive areas can sustain highway licensed vehicles, but they end up getting banned along with OHVs, bicycles, and any other device with wheels. Wholesale closure is not the only alternative. As Feinstein said, "all the easy ones are done", referring to Wilderness designations. It is time to incorporate a more reasonable solution.

Sandman,

I'm very glad to hear that you take your personal safety so seriously. I'm always armed at camp, but I admit to being a little lax when out and about. The serenity of the desert tends to be very relaxing. At least until something like you described comes up! If I were in the situation you described, I would do the exact same thing. Then I would high tail it outta there before they could come back with guns of their own. The older I get, the more I realize that the insanity of humans knows no limits!

Lee

[Dan]

Yes, Sandman. We've heard that story well over a dozen times from you, and it takes on new details almost every time.