Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

[historik951]

Hi Gang,
So to summarize, we could open these closed areas by implementing a tag system supported by volunteers and reinforced by hunting game cameras. To also discourage the " wrong element ", the fee's for the special licenses would be high but the fines for misuse would be HUGE!!! Correct ?? or am I missing something ???

Thx
H951

[Brew]

You would still have the same problem as it currently exists, not enough man power to enforce the laws.

Brew

[LeeVW]

Brew's right. Everything you said would work IF there were enough funding for enforcement. There isn't, and it doesn't look like there ever will be. With more Wilderness designations on the horizon, the BLM will be spread even more thin as they delineate, barricade, and sign all the new boundaries. We off-roaders comprise a huge workforce that could help out a lot, but we have a thing about locking ourselves out.

What if land were designated as something other than Wilderness, something like what the BRC calls "Backcountry Designation"? That's where motorized access is allowed, but only on specific trails. The off-road community could be involved in creating a trail system that makes sense, and then perhaps a motorcycle club or other interested party could "adopt" the area and make contact with visitors on the big weekends. Self-policing would work in this case, considering the vested interest the people would have in the area.

Lee

[Brew]

What if land were designated as something other than Wilderness, something like what the BRC calls "Backcountry Designation"? That's where motorized access is allowed, but only on specific trails. The off-road community could be involved in creating a trail system that makes sense, and then perhaps a motorcycle club or other interested party could "adopt" the area and make contact with visitors on the big weekends. Self-policing would work in this case, considering the vested interest the people would have in the area.
Lee

That is what is happening on the world famous Rubicon 4x4 route. A couple of 4x4 clubs have been VERY active in keeping it clean, educating folks, getting remote pit toilets installed, etc.

Brew

[historik951]

You would still have the same problem as it currently exists, not enough man power to enforce the laws.

Brew

But wouldn't the game cameras help to identify the rule breakers ??? And with the help of the cameras, then less people needed ???

H951

[Brew]

But wouldn't the game cameras help to identify the rule breakers ??? And with the help of the cameras, then less people needed ???
H951

I guess it would depend on the quality of the pictures that the cameras take and the location of the "special tags".

Brew

[Dan]

I suggested game cameras a couple of years ago for closed and open trails with sensitive cultural artifacts and petroglyph sites. The idea was dismissed by some, who cited the cost and other factors as impossible to reconcile. Either someone has to go pick up the storage media and replace it with an empty one periodically, or the cameras must be wireless. Wireless is a problem off the beaten path, for obvious reasons. So, the logistics take us right back to manpower as the issue. The cameras are plenty capable of taking clear and crisp images, as many are in the 4-5 megapixel range. Many models are infrared, allowing them to not only be used at night, but the infrared flash cannot be seen by humans or wildlife. So they don't know their image has been taken, and they may not even know where the camera is located if well camouflaged. But in some areas, they may be a workable solution, especially if used as a decoy deterrent (even if you can't put a camera in a particular location, a sign warning of the camera's presence can dramatically reduce the likelihood that the knuckleheads won't assume they are welcome to venture forth). For those placed within cell range, images are transmitted instantly, including to a ranger's cell phone. All wireless game cameras seem to require subscription to cell service, which does come at a real cost. But it's a whole lot less expensive than a salary, and the rangers don't have to be everywhere at once.

[historik951]

I saw a bunch at Bass Pro Shops and they had them for as low as $28 ea...

[Dezertfox]

The permit concept was implemented in the BLM Rand Management (RMMA) area per WEMO.

The permit basically was a map of the area and a brief education dialog between
BLM staff and permit holder. The process is working per the plan WEMO stipulation

The thing that did not sit well with CBD is this allowed BLM legally to open two trails in RMMA
R50 & R5. Those two trails were closed due to CBD treat of lawsuit back in 2002 for non
compliance issues.

The Non-compliance issue was mitigated by fencing the trail corridor and the permit
system is working well.

CBD still was not satisfied and made a motion last year to re-close R5 & R50 until the
WEMO suit is settled. So BLM complied, they are now closed agian (Note, these are
pre 1986 routes that have always been in the BLM inventory)

To be honest, Im not sure what the fate of those two routes are, Im hoping BLM to
get those two back open ASAP as the permit program is still in effect and working
well with the rest of the RMMA area.

If and when they do open these routes back up, I encourage anyone reading this
to visit that area, It a worthwhile trip of scenic desert, Permits can work

[historik951]

Hello Desertfox,
I'm a new guy and have no idea what you just said... Meaning what does RMMA, WEMO, and CBD stand for ??? Sorry to be uninformed....

H951