Tumlinson Saga

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RMG1976
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Re: Here is what happened

Post by RMG1976 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:30 am

I don't mind posting this video - this was shot in real time as the GPR scan at The Half Circle took place. This was the only area that was scanned, as it was the only area of interest we had. We knew that Travis had buried a portion ( also called the remainder in my installments ) - and it was my intent to see if the box that he buried was still there.

1:50 in the video is where “Blake” tells me he found something - then shows me the results on his screen.

From that point forward, he starts going in a grid pattern.

4:28 he scans over the same area again and gets the same hit. Explains it to me again, gives me an estimated size of the box and depth.

I am not willing to release the footage shot on the ground from my iPhone. This is what you see me holding throughout the video. The reason I am not willing to release it is because it shows 'Blake's" face and the company he worked for. I still have the intent to file charges - but without the support of the Gov't (that means Government by the way, not Governor) - it will prove to be difficult and costly.

As far as Feldman and his HEAT operation - there is a big difference between him doing scans in the Superstition Wilderness Area and me doing them in the non-wilderness area. No permit is required. I would presume that folks would know this - but clearly I was mistaken.


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cubfan64
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Re: Here is what happened

Post by cubfan64 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:40 am

RMG1976 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:08 am
cubfan64 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:59 pm
Ryan, at one point when talking about figuring out the longitude and latitude markings for your "1847" site you mentioned... "this pattern of numbers and symbols is identical to the artistic expression Travis carved on the chimney of Pegleg's cabin. It's unmistakable."

Are you saying the numbers and symbols themselves are identical to those on the chimney or just that Travis carved numbers and symbols on the chimney in patterns which reminded you of the stone map? Also, I know years ago Garry Cundiff posted a number of photos of that Chimney and I recall a bicycle, old car, head and turtle, but I don't remember seeing any symbols or numbers. Can you post photos of the chimney with markings that are similar to those you believe Travis carved on the maps?

I've been extremely busy at work these days and have only had a few minutes now and then to pop on and read any updates, but one thing really struck me!! I can't be the only one who noticed the comment you say the Forest Service made after looking at your site.

In essence the Forest Service just told people that unless you get caught in the act (which of course is a huge risk), unless you're digging in an archaeological site, or leave behind anything of value or antiquity, there's nothing they can do to pursue charges. I swear I heard a story once about someone who thought they knew where something was buried so they just went out to the site, put up a big tent and "camped there" for a few days. I remember the story saying something about sounds of digging coming from inside, but after a time the tent came down and they went back to town - the ground looked the same and nobody was the wiser.

Good Morning Paul,

What I mean by "Artistic Expression" is the thought process behind creating art and how the author of that information chooses to express it. You are correct in your remembrance of what Garry had posted many years ago. Travis carved a self portrait then used a series of lines to connect the carvings together as one collective set.

I found this artistic expression to be the same in regard to the Priest side of the rock. A set of lines connecting a series of numbers to make one collective set.

In regard to the story you are recalling about illegal digging - thats very interesting and certainly makes the answer given to me by the officials at Tonto National Forest a bit easier to understand. Ultimately, of course, choosing to do things that are illegal (caught or not) - does not jive well with me or anyone else in the family. Those acts were a huge blow to the morale of everyone involved - that one of our sites had been compromised. We've still got so much more to follow up on - and work with members of the SoJ on. As mentioned, we had two different stories going on at once. 1) Travis and his movie set. 2) The Ground Map & The Barn Map. Now that we have completed and have a full understanding of the rocks Travis carved, we are focusing our undivided attention on Part 2 of our quest - but this time we will be doing it alone.

Thanks for your question!

-RG

ImageJJT CABIN CARVINGS by RYAN GORDON, on Flickr
Had the chimney carvings included numbers and symbols similar to those shown on the stone maps I could get on board with the idea that the artistic expression is "unmistakable," but with that not being the case I personally don't see the same comparison you do.

Your story is a pretty fantastic tale. There are A LOT of assumptions made along the way with pretty thin evidence imho. I've had enough experience with metal detectors and GPR to know that running them and interpreting what they tell you is as much an art as it is a science and even well trained people can be mistaken. I don't have the time now to pose further questions or probe deeper into some of the assumptions you made, but hopefully when things calm down a bit at work I can find more time to absorb everything and figure out what questions I even want to ask.

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Re: Here is what happened

Post by RMG1976 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:51 am

cubfan64 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:40 am
RMG1976 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:08 am
cubfan64 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:59 pm
Ryan, at one point when talking about figuring out the longitude and latitude markings for your "1847" site you mentioned... "this pattern of numbers and symbols is identical to the artistic expression Travis carved on the chimney of Pegleg's cabin. It's unmistakable."

Are you saying the numbers and symbols themselves are identical to those on the chimney or just that Travis carved numbers and symbols on the chimney in patterns which reminded you of the stone map? Also, I know years ago Garry Cundiff posted a number of photos of that Chimney and I recall a bicycle, old car, head and turtle, but I don't remember seeing any symbols or numbers. Can you post photos of the chimney with markings that are similar to those you believe Travis carved on the maps?

I've been extremely busy at work these days and have only had a few minutes now and then to pop on and read any updates, but one thing really struck me!! I can't be the only one who noticed the comment you say the Forest Service made after looking at your site.

In essence the Forest Service just told people that unless you get caught in the act (which of course is a huge risk), unless you're digging in an archaeological site, or leave behind anything of value or antiquity, there's nothing they can do to pursue charges. I swear I heard a story once about someone who thought they knew where something was buried so they just went out to the site, put up a big tent and "camped there" for a few days. I remember the story saying something about sounds of digging coming from inside, but after a time the tent came down and they went back to town - the ground looked the same and nobody was the wiser.

Good Morning Paul,

What I mean by "Artistic Expression" is the thought process behind creating art and how the author of that information chooses to express it. You are correct in your remembrance of what Garry had posted many years ago. Travis carved a self portrait then used a series of lines to connect the carvings together as one collective set.

I found this artistic expression to be the same in regard to the Priest side of the rock. A set of lines connecting a series of numbers to make one collective set.

In regard to the story you are recalling about illegal digging - thats very interesting and certainly makes the answer given to me by the officials at Tonto National Forest a bit easier to understand. Ultimately, of course, choosing to do things that are illegal (caught or not) - does not jive well with me or anyone else in the family. Those acts were a huge blow to the morale of everyone involved - that one of our sites had been compromised. We've still got so much more to follow up on - and work with members of the SoJ on. As mentioned, we had two different stories going on at once. 1) Travis and his movie set. 2) The Ground Map & The Barn Map. Now that we have completed and have a full understanding of the rocks Travis carved, we are focusing our undivided attention on Part 2 of our quest - but this time we will be doing it alone.

Thanks for your question!

-RG

ImageJJT CABIN CARVINGS by RYAN GORDON, on Flickr
Had the chimney carvings included numbers and symbols similar to those shown on the stone maps I could get on board with the idea that the artistic expression is "unmistakable," but with that not being the case I personally don't see the same comparison you do.

Your story is a pretty fantastic tale. There are A LOT of assumptions made along the way with pretty thin evidence imho. I've had enough experience with metal detectors and GPR to know that running them and interpreting what they tell you is as much an art as it is a science and even well trained people can be mistaken. I don't have the time now to pose further questions or probe deeper into some of the assumptions you made, but hopefully when things calm down a bit at work I can find more time to absorb everything and figure out what questions I even want to ask.

As written, I can certainly understand why you (and perhaps others) find that a lot of assumptions were made. Its the collection of all the evidence, along with the blue prints, that would teach me what the carvings on the chimney mean to Travis and how they would translate over to the rocks.

Art is a wonderful thing in that aspect - and the age old saying " A picture can tell a thousand words". Everyone is going to look at art in a very different way. I don't believe Travis would be offended that his "artistic expression" was readily apparent to everyone who looked at it.

Ultimately, I do have to respect the wishes of certain family members that do not want things shown on a public forum. My offer still stands, however, to show information to Dr. Glover.

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Re: Here is what happened

Post by RMG1976 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:21 am

Here is a copy of our sizzle / demo reel - shot by a multi-award winning production company that did a fantastic job putting it together.

As of this morning, I have edited out names as well as The Barn Map / Ground Map and other items of interest that do not need to been seen on a public platform.

As described to me, this demo reel was shown at RealScreen by the Production Company and first bid on by History Channel. They would back out as soon as they found out it was in the Superstition Mountains. Discovery and Nat Geo made offers and the Production Company accepted Discovery's offer.

I am proud of the demo reel they put together - it put our series into development with a great network.

This demo reel was shot roughly two years ago. It's fun to look back and see what we knew then as opposed to what we know now.


RMG1976
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Re: Here is what happened

Post by RMG1976 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:52 am

Paul - just throwing this out there for the heck of it.

According to the date next to the carvings on the chimney, Travis made those when he was 13-14 years old. He wouldn't have known anything about the Superstitions, or have dreamt up the idea of carving rocks as props to a movie set.

His work with the rocks and his involvement in the Superstitions was 25+ years later.

Something to consider....

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Marius
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Re: Here is what happened

Post by Marius » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:25 am

Martini on the " Rocks " anybody ?

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babymick1
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Re: Here is what happened

Post by babymick1 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:08 am

Ryan

I see you learned to control your temperament, That's good! Love all the Vintage Travis stuff it adds a lot to the
Story. I also see you agree with the enigma of the Stones
We're split up long ago, As I said. But I definitely disagree
With coordinates were place in the Stones, Hog wash to
That. The 2=3 is to convey the trinity is broken, that's all
It means. Nothing Fancy.

Now I hate to see things not Finnished, If you believe your
Finnish is complete do nothing. If not let's share.
Privately
rexmick@mail.com

RMG1976
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Re: Here is what happened

Post by RMG1976 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:43 pm

I want to make a comment on the theft of the box - and what led up to those events. I see that there is some confusion there - so perhaps I can help clarify.

First - with the network - when I say the CEO contacted us - what I mean is the collective "us". The chain of command in these relationships is the production company is the middle-man in between the family and I. All communication that we receive (or any show for that matter) comes though the production company. There were many requests that we (the family and I) received from Discovery (through the production company) as part of the development process. This is normal.

After the GPR scan - and confirming all of the research I had done - the results were not a huge surprise, but rather an epic confirmation.

Acting on the information prior to filming was something that never crossed our minds. We knew we were under contract - we knew that going out to dig the box up was not only illegal, but there was also a tremendous paper trail behind it. On top of that, we knew that the contents of the box would not legally belong to us. The box and its contents at the 1847 site was just another part of our story and we felt it was a tremendous honor to be able to return those items to their rightful and lawful owner.

Its silly to think, or even suggest, that we would go camp out there to watch the site. In full transparency and with all due respect, those coordinates have been sitting in public view since LIFE Magazine. 10's of thousands of people have viewed a version of the rocks at the museum that also have the full coordinates. Further, the McGee's wrote in one of their published articles they had also recognized the M111 and 33 on the horse map to be coordinates, they just didn't put together the minutes and seconds aspect on the priest side of the stone. That article was published when I still in a baby stroller! If someone,outside of me, hadn't figured them out in all those years....the chance of someone figuring them out in a few short weeks while the show was being developed was a moot point.

Did we lose out because we followed the directive of the TV network? Sure...you could say that. It was a very tough decision - but in following the path of creating a fantastic TV series, full of history and evidence, the risk vs. reward seemed to be okay.

Telling this story on the internet is difficult. Not being able to provide you folks with everything that I have based my findings on is also difficult....but it goes back to the respect and allegiance I have for the Tumlinson and Leasman families and their wishes. They are hard working, honest and intelligent people and I will be forever grateful they chose me to tell their story. I speak with them on a daily basis about our future plans and these installments. Its great to have their support - and enjoy their excitement of continuing our quest.

As to what you folks should believe, I have made it very clear - you should believe whatever resonates within you the most. It would be selfish for me, or anyone else, to tell you what you should believe in. Its none of my business, or the families business, what you choose to do with your free time.

All of us walk away from this part of the story knowing we accomplished a lot.

This is going to wrap up my involvement on these boards.

ImageGo_forth_and_set_MD163_1024x1024_e2183cfe-e15d-4bbb-a991-84dec6f9c03b by RYAN GORDON, on Flickr

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Re: Here is what happened

Post by babymick1 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:24 pm

Ryan that's it. So your all done then.

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Re: Here is what happened

Post by Garry » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:32 am

Ryan,

I am very interested in the history of Travis and your post below certainly piqued my interest.

In the mid 1930’s Travis moved to Arizona. He worked at a mine with his wife Alleen ( pronounced AL – EEN ). Their job was to tend to the donkey’s that would bring ore out of a copper mine owned by the modern day company, Rio Tinto. Travis worked in mining for about 3.5 years, according to records verified by the HR Department of Rio Tinto. Many thought Travis’ first time in Arizona was on a road trip to visit family in 1949, this is not the case.

While Travis’ was working for the copper mine ( the name of the series of claims was called “Walnut Canyon” ) – he would start to investigate many of the treasure tales and legends within Arizona.


Janie passed along a similar story several years ago which she probably got from some of the documents in the locker. She only addressed it casually and I don’t know how in depth her understanding of the actual details or how long it had been since she had actually reviewed the information.

Her short version was that Travis worked in mining before he went to Hood River, Oregon. She thought the mine was in California and that maybe it was a coal mine. Travis didn’t work below ground but was employed above ground and she mentioned the donkey connection.

Since you have the documents from the mining company, I don’t know whether she was passing along a family story or there was something in the locker.

I don’t want to put you on the spot but I couldn’t conjure up a scenario in which the family would mind sharing this kind of information.

Would you post the images that allowed you to reach the conclusion that Travis and Alleen were in Arizona at this early date. I’m particularly interested in the time frame, where they were living and anything about the type of mine. I know that some copper mines yield small amounts of other valuable minerals.

Don't go sparingly on the images. :D

Thanks in advance,

Garry

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