The FACTS Behind Jesuit Rules, Mines, and Treasures

[cubfan64]

George - welcome to the forum! I just recently picked up a copy of "Lost City of Z" and will be reading it after I re-read Sims Ely's "The Lost Dutchman Mine" and making notes.

I've always been fascinated by stories of lost cities and "treasures" in the Amazon. I spent alot of time reading about the Inca civilizations in Ecuador and Peru when I was younger and with a little luck and some additional $$, my wife and I are hoping to take a trip there one of these days.

I'll definitely be watching for a movie about Fawcett's life and explorations.

[Exploration Fawcett]

Cubfan64:
Thank you for the welcome.
I recommend that when you go to South America you spend all the time in Peru and not Ecuador. The best Incas sites are in Peru - specifically Cuzco and Machu Pichu. Those two locations are the wonder of Inca civilization (although some archaeologists question whether the Incas built Nazca and Machu Pichu). You may also want to visit the Nazca lines, another wonderful location to see.

Very Respectfully
George

[gollum]

George,

You are exactly correct. While the online Boll Weevils and Garden Gnomes may have issues with Jesuit Wealth, it only shows that their research has no depth. That all they do is listen to Church Dogma and read Fathers Polzer SJ and Burrus SJ.

Enough careful reading (mostly the words of the Jesuit Fathers themselves) will tell any person all they need to know to understand both the reasons WHY the Jesuits wanted wealth and that they did indeed HAVE wealth.

Whenever I find contentious information, I have a couple of very prominent Jesuit Historians (both of whom are renowned historians and also Jesuit Priests of MANY years), one at Loyola Marymount and one at Georgetown, I contact for their opinions. My friend at Georgetown always surprises me. When we talk about Jesuit Mines and wealth, he is completely accepting of the premise. Just like Jesuit Slaveholding (he gave me some sources of information I hadn't found before regarding slaves documented working aboard the Pope's Yacht/barge).

When it comes to Jesuit Wealth, there is ONE simple question to ask a non-believer:

"What happened to it?"

We have the journals of the Jesuit Fathers themselves. Published after their imprisonment, when they were home and not worried about any repercussions. Those journals describe immense wealth. We also have the journals of Fray Junipero Serra. The Franciscan Father that was allowed to raid the Jesuit seized property to use anything he deemed necessary to found the Upper California Mission System beginning in 1768. He documented what he found. What he documented was NOWHERE NEAR what the Jesuit Fathers themselves described in their journals.

SO................ "What happened to it?"

We also know it wasn't there when the Spanish Authorities arrested the Jesuit Priests on 25 June 1767. All one has to do is read the journals of Father Joseph Och SJ to see that the Spanish tore his residence apart looking for treasure.

SO ................ "What happened to it?"

A very simple question, with a very convoluted answer. HAHAHA But the answer is there. It just takes a little reading.

Best-Mike

[gollum]

Jim,

There are several reasons why I do so much research. I like to make sure I have the facts as best I can before speaking about a subject. Many people don't, and are susceptible to the old adage:

"Be silent and let people think you are stupid, or speak up and let them know it!"

Another, and probably the main reason, is that I tend to heavily obsess a subject when I get into it. ESPECIALLY TREASURE STORIES. I don't like to spend any inordinate amounts of time and money (and risking my life and limb) trying to find a treasure that doesn't exist. While I may not be able to prove anything conclusively, as long as I have a preponderance of evidence that tells me I am not chasing wild geese, I am okay.

Best-Mike

[somehiker]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67J0PN20100820

Imagine what a single cordlike stack of similar bars would be worth.

Somehiker.

[Jim Hatt]

Great Story Wayne!

Would you believe I have put my own hand through the small hole in the Plexiglas, and held that exact gold bar? That was thick plex... They must have gotten in there at night when nobody was around, and used a sledge hammer to break it!

Jim

Since the story was on Reuters, and may only be available at that link for a limited amount of time. I am going to repost it here with full credits.


MIAMI | Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:47pm EDT

MIAMI (Reuters) -
Thieves stole a $550,000 gold bar from a treasure museum where it went on display after a Florida salvager recovered it from the wreck of a Spanish galleon that lay on the ocean floor for centuries, the museum's executive director said.


The 74.85-ounce gold bar was stolen on Wednesday from the Mel Fisher Maritime Museum in Key West, Florida, in what executive director Melissa Kendrick called "a very quiet smash and grab."
The 11-inch (28-centimeter) gold bar was inside a glass case with a small opening where visitors could stick a hand inside and lift the bar to examine it.

Footage from the museum's security camera clearly showed two culprits who made off with it, and the FBI and local police were investigating. The museum's insurer offered a $10,000 reward for its safe return, Kendrick said on Thursday.

Gold has hovered near historic highs after hitting a record $1,266.50 an ounce in June, but the stolen bar's $550,000 valuation reflects historic value far beyond its melt-down worth.

Mel Fisher, a Key West treasure hunter who died in 1998, recovered the bar in 1980 from the wreck of the Santa Margarita, a Spanish galleon that sank off the Florida Keys during a hurricane in 1622.
Kendall said the bar had several distinctive markings, including Roman numerals signifying it was 16-karat gold, a symbol identifying its owner, and a series of dots indicating what taxes the owner had paid to the Spanish crown.

"It's a one-of-a-kind piece," Kendall said. The theft was the talk of Key West, an island town of 25,000 people at the southern tip of the Florida Keys.

Fisher and his crew found the wreck of the Santa Margarita while searching for its sister ship, the Nuestra Senora de Atocha.
The ships were part of a flotilla carrying gold, silver, emeralds and pearls from the colonial New World back to Spain.

Fisher and his crew found the Atocha's motherlode in 1985, hauling up one of the world's greatest sunken treasures of gold, silver bars and coins, as well as jewelry, gems and housewares owned by the sailors, soldiers, noblemen and clergy who perished when the ship sank.

(Reporting by Jane Sutton, editing by Vicki Allen)

[somehiker]

Although I have spent some time at Key West,I have never been to the Fisher museum.My son was there while I took a half day snorkeling/diving tour to the east side of the Tortugas.No gold....but lots of big toothy barracuda and a couple of curious bull sharks.Though I love the water,it's a lot easier ...and much less expensive...to look for treasure on dry land.It don't get much drier than it is out there.

Regards:Wayne

[Exploration Fawcett]

Greetings to All from Africa:

Introduction to Another Amazing Treasure Story Involving the Jesuits. There is another fascinating and titillating story involving Jesuits, lost treasures, and a stone map with hearts and crosses. I am certain all of you have heard about Paititi. Paititi is another name for El Dorado in South America. Colonel Fawcett mentioned many times Paititi, and many believed that he was actually looking for Paititi. I offer this story as support to the opinion or theory that the Stone Maps are authentic and created by Jesuits. It does not prove that the Stone Maps were made by the Jesuits, but is circumstantial evidence that the Jesuits made the Stone Maps and that it leads to a treasure – whether it is the LDM, caches, or Church treasures. As an attorney, many times we use circumstantial evidence to prove a fact. Many times we do not have direct evidence, and therefore must rely on circumstantial evidence to prove a case.

Paititi (or, El Dorado). According to Wikipedia, “Paititi is a legendary Incan lost city, or an utopian rich land, said to lie east of the Andes, hidden somewhere within the remote rain forests of southeast Peru, northern Bolivia, or southwest Brazil……. Other variants of the legend see Paititi as an Incan refuge in the border area between Bolivia and Brazil.” This is the area where Colonel Fawcett was searching for the Lost City of Z. Many explorers and adventurers throughout many centuries have sought El Dorado. They have returned empty handed and many did not returned from their voyage – lost in the dense jungles of the Amazon. However, in 2001, according to Wikipedia, something interesting happened. An Italian archaeologist found a Jesuit document that may point to El Dorado.

According to Wikipedia, “In 2001 the Italian archaeologist Mario Polia discovered the report of the missionary Andres Lopez in the archives of the Jesuits in Rome. In the document, which originates from the time around 1600, Lopez describes a large city rich in gold, silver and jewels, located in the middle of the tropical jungle and called Paititi by the natives. Lopez informed the Pope about its discovery. Conspiracy theories maintain that the exact location of Paititi has been kept secret by the Vatican. Polia's find acquired wide publicity, though its content is third-hand (Lopez himself never reached Paititi, but heard of it from the natives) and far from reliable.” There have been serious search for Paititi in the last few decades, most notably by American explorer Gregory Deyermenjian and Italian explorers. Many believe that there is a stone map that may show the location of Paititi.

Stone Map Indicating Location of El Dorado – The Petroglyphs of Pusharo. Many now believe that the Petroglyphs of Pusharo is a stone map indicating the location of El Dorado. According to Wikipedia, “The Petroglyphs of Pusharo constitute a unique and extensive ancient rock art site in southeast Peru's Manu National Park, a jungled expanse that still contains unexplored and little known areas, and for which an official government permit is required for entry……The site is made up of an array of deeply incised rock carvings……. Its location is on the south shore of the Río Palatoa….. The petroglyphs are thought by some researchers to be purely pan-Amazonian in origin……Others believe that there is an Incan component that is now coming to light, and that the glyphs constitute parts of a map. Definitive word on the meaning of Pusharo's glyphs must wait until further research is conducted and completed. The glyphs contain elements such as heart-shaped faces, some with double borders, spirals, zigzags, suns, "curlicue X's" and others that defy verbal description.Some believe that the site will bear out a connection with a lost city, most specifically the "Paititi" of Andean/Amazonian legend.”Others believe that the Jesuits may have created this stone map as a way to identify the location of Paititi, or El Dorado.

It is amazing that the stone map of Pusharo contains hearts, double border hearts, zigzags, and crosses. In my opinion, the resemblance to the drawings in the Stone Maps is perhaps beyond coincidence.

Conclusion. It appears that Jesuits had their own way of making unique stone maps. The Petroglyphs of Pusharo and the recent discovery of Jesuit documents about Paititi may be strong circumstantial evidence that the Stone Maps are authentic. In my opinion, as I have stated before, the Stone Maps are authentic. In my opinion, the Stone Maps lead the way to treasures in the Superstition Mountains.

References.I give you a word of caution about Wikipedia. Sometimes their entries are accurate, sometimes they are not. Therefore, I am including below the links to Wikipedia in addition to other non-Wikipedia links about Pusharo and Paititi, so that you can judge for yourself. Lastly, if you follow the links below, you will be able to see photos of the Petroglyphs of Pusharo. The other link is from The Athena Review, an archaeology magazine, and others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paititi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusharo
http://www.athenapub.com/timpia2.htm
http://oldmapsexpeditionsandexploration ... y-of-gold/
http://www.explorers.org/flag_reports/F ... enjian.pdf
http://www.paititi.com/

Very Respectfully
George

[rede2rock]

George :

Great references, my first thought upon looking at the stone map with the double ringed hearts with faces was they and the sword type symbol & several other symbols were placed on a much older map. Very interesting reading. Thanks for adding one more treasure to my list. If I live to be 160 years old I may get to this one as I already have so many to search for now . Seriously perhaps the faces were added by the jesuits to the hearts as a way to keep them from being removed by the natives. I am guessing maybe the face symbol has some kind of revered meaning for the natives. That way they could map the way and have it be accepted by the natives without provoking them.

Thom

[Exploration Fawcett]

Thom:
Thank you.
You are correct. The Jesuits could have added their own imprint into the old stone map in Peru. An interesting mystery that may be related to the Stone Maps in Arizona.

Very Respectfully
George in Africa