DID WALTZ LIE TO JULIA AND RHINEY???

[AshtonPage]

Hi Alan,

We do give a rat’s tail, that’s why we’re all here. One thing that came to mind in reading your post is that on his 80th birthday, Al Reser left Peralta Trailhead midmorning, and hiked over Bluff Saddle, down to White Spring, over to Charlibois Spring, back around Bluff Springs Mountain to his car and then drove home to southern California. See Glover page 215.

While we don’t know what distance Waltz was capable of hiking, I think it would be a mistake to say he couldn’t get very far into the hills on account of his age. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn’t – but my point is, after reading about Mr. Reser, I wouldn’t rule it out.

Best,
Ashton

[alan m]

Ashton
It is 42 miles from where waltz lived in Phoenix to the dons camp at peralta trail head
It is 36 miles from the same to the dutchman state park
And it is 47 miles from his home to whitlow canyon
Ties net corred only 11 or so miles on his trip in the mountains
Very doable in one day
40 miles plus the 5 or so into the mountains cannot be done in one or even two days
Best
Alan

[alan m]

Sorry for the typos
Small phone big thumbs
It should say reisner covered 11 miles
Alan

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hello

I rode my horse in the Superstitions and covered 15 miles in less than 9 hours, and that includes a lengthy stop to eat, take pics, and look around. That's some of the roughest country I've ever seen. I keep my horse in shape by riding them through the "normal" desert and can cover 6 miles in just over an hour. It's completely possible to go in and come out in 4 days, especially if all you're doing is grabbing stuff from a cache.

On a sidenote, a mule will out do most horses. I was passed like I was standing still by a packer (nice guy) on a mule on one trip out there. They can cover tough ground WAY better than a horse. According to the stories, Waltz rode a mule. That gives even more possibility to his being able to make that trip in that time frame.

Thanks
Travis

[alan m]

I knew waltz used a mule but I did not know he rode one
Trivial point perhaps but waltz did have to carry supplies with him into the mountains
In the journal of cave Johnson
He describes their travels with the U S Cavalry
The distance traveled and the location and terrain
They never covered more than 25 miles
Best
Alan

[cubfan64]

I knew waltz used a mule but I did not know he rode one
Trivial point perhaps but waltz did have to carry supplies with him into the mountains
In the journal of cave Johnson
He describes their travels with the U S Cavalry
The distance traveled and the location and terrain
They never covered more than 25 miles
Best
Alan

I think it's probably difficult to compare what a single traveller with 1 or more mules or burro's can do with what a Cavalry troop can do - there's just too many factors for that to be a good comparison.

The truth is we don't know if Waltz had no mules or multiple ones. We also don't know if he had stashes of supplies and equipment in the mountains that would allow him to "travel lightly" - much like a number of current dutch hunters have.

The other factor that comes in to play when trying to figure out how far Waltz could have traveled in 4 or 5 days is the difficulty of the terrain. Even relatively small differences in elevation and roughness of the terrain can make a pretty sizeable difference in the length of time needed to reach a destination.

On top of all that, how much faith do any of us really put in the "facts" of how long Waltz was gone for? There were stories of him going out for days, wandering around and then coming home without ever even going to his source of gold - all in the name of trying to keep folks from following him.

I guess I look at it this way... If you found the location where you believe the mine lies, then did an experiment by packing up a mule or two and "hoofing it" from Phoenix to the Superstitions, to your location, spend a half or full day there and then headed back. Would it really be that significant of proof if you could do it in 3-4 days, or on the flip side, would you completely disprove your theory if you could only do it in 5-7 days?

[Dirty Dutchman]

I can carry enough supplies on my back to stay about 3 days. A mule can carry way more than that, plus a man on his back. I doubt Waltz packed more than food, a bedroll, and a rifle. He traveled in the winter along a route where water was plentiful, so that wasn't a problem. One side of a saddlebag can hold enough food to last 4 days. The other side would be free for whatever he was bringing back.

The average WALKING speed of a horse and a mule is 4 to 5 mph. Let's just call it 3 mph. In 10 hours, that's 30 miles. In 4 days that's 120 miles... Totally possible. Especially considering Waltz was just taking from te cache.

Thanks
Travis

[Somero]

What if on one or even multiple trips he cached some gold at a location that would be quick to retrieve and thus making a shorter trip.

[Dirty Dutchman]

What if on one or even multiple trips he cached some gold at a location that would be quick to retrieve and thus making a shorter trip.

That could be, but the problem with that is Waltz said the cache wasn't far from the mine.....

Thanks
Travis

[i-tsari-tsu-i]

Hello

I rode my horse in the Superstitions and covered 15 miles in less than 9 hours, and that includes a lengthy stop to eat, take pics, and look around. That's some of the roughest country I've ever seen. I keep my horse in shape by riding them through the "normal" desert and can cover 6 miles in just over an hour. It's completely possible to go in and come out in 4 days, especially if all you're doing is grabbing stuff from a cache.

On a sidenote, a mule will out do most horses. I was passed like I was standing still by a packer (nice guy) on a mule on one trip out there. They can cover tough ground WAY better than a horse. According to the stories, Waltz rode a mule. That gives even more possibility to his being able to make that trip in that time frame.

Thanks
Travis

Travis,

Did he have molded plastic panniers or canvas? Was the mule a big black animal? Last question.....Was he using a horse, maybe a paint, for a pack animal?

The reason I ask, is that I may have met the man. If so, that mule would not walk over a good size hill, he would lope.

Good luck,

Joe