DID WALTZ LIE TO JULIA AND RHINEY???

[alan m]

I thank the great architect of the universe for that

[eunderhill]

I wondering what type of lie Waltz may have told?
Did he not have any gold and just said there was a mine in Supers?
Did he have gold and purposely give false directions?
Or is the truth of the matter more convoluted?
roc

I have seem all sorts of weird things said about Waltz on the net. One of these said that Waltz was stealing gold from some legitimate mine and just caching it in the Superstition area. Another said that Waltz was involved with an Apache woman and she showed him the location of a mine that may or may not have been in the Superstitions area. She supposedly later paid the price for showing the mine to a white man with her tribe. The first one sounds plausible while the second one sounds rather unrealistic and not very likely considering the the nature of the Apache to white people in general. It is possible that the truth is more convolted than any of this.

[alan m]

One of the recorded accounts of Waltz is an asset report which assessed the value of waltz's gold at $248,000 per ton!
There is no mine in the history of the United States that ever assayed at that high a value
The Vulture mine of which Waltz worked for a time hit just shy of $100,000 per ton
The mammoth a little less
Alan

[roc2rol]

Waltz did lots of talking.
He was at death's door.
He had an interesting life.
His home was lost.
He was dependent to an extent on the graces of Julia.
She understood some of the German native tongue.
I’m sure she was an eager listener.
Something Waltz probably never had.

Stories of long life got told.
And he was a prospector of gold.
So many of those stories had to be enhanced
That’s part of the territory.

But I don’t believe Waltz fabricated a large tale
and left Julia and Co to go seek a lost treasure.
He knew how barren & rough
prospecting could be
to send greenhorns out on a false errand.

No. I think Julia heard what she wanted to hear.
An acted out her own self delusion or
for some other notoriety
And that doesn’t necessarily negate a hidden treasure.

What’s wrong with this theory?

roc

[alan m]

Roc
I think you nailed it
Waltz must have spread some boloney at sometime
Julia must have heard this from some source early on
If she had listened to waltz and rejected all the other clues she picked up along the way..... Well the mine might not be lost today
Alan

[roc2rol]

so where does that leave us ?
we might as well start searching in our own back yards
and it probably a bit more encouraging
if that back yard is next to the Supers.

but really... what confirmed clue
do we have that a lost goldmine exists?

[alan m]

We have the gold assay report and the gold matchbox from the gold that came from under waltz death bed
I believe that clay worst is in possession of it
Look at some of the clues by Dr Thorne
He said that when he saw the peak it was to the south and that it looked like a stallions organ
The needle does not take on that appearance from the north or south but only from the east or west
This places the clue about the mines location in reference to weavers needle in serious doubt
I suggest a good read of sims ely's book " the lost dutchman"
Alan

[Mrs.Oroblanco]

The peak known as the "stallion's organ" was Picket Post Mountain. Easy to see why, too.

Mrs.O

[alan m]

That is the first I have heard it applied to picket post
It is not identified as such in any of the books I've read
Do you have a source?
I would like to chase this and see where it goes
If that is the case ( and I am not doubting you )
It puts a whole new spin on things
I have read where some place the lost dutchman that far east
Alan

[roc2rol]

Interesting

Was the Dr. Thorne tale well known pre Julia?
What is the (year) first documented resource of it?
roc