Herman Petrasch

[AshtonPage]

Hi Paul,

We lost a lot when we lost Jim. I never met him in person but he always steered me in the right direction on the forum and via email. If I ever do find the end of the rainbow, I will owe a good deal of my success to the advice Jim gave me.

There are mixed reviews on Ron’s book but I think there might be enough information to give me a better insight. I’ve always said that for Sims book being ‘how to find the LDM’ the one thing that is missing is the directions. Separating fact from fiction has always been the issue no matter whose account you read. I liken it to the lottery – I only need SIX correct numbers (clues) and I will win (walk right to the mine) every time. But six correct numbers plus three bogus numbers (33% bad clues) and the odds go from 100% down to 1,296 to 1. Four bogus numbers (40% bad clues) and the odds drop to 7,776 to 1. Every bogus clue decreases the chances exponentially.

The economy being what it is, I can only make to Arizona once (maybe twice) a year. The current scheduling when both my partners can take off work and\or are available looks like it will prevent me from attending the rendezvous. Maybe I need to reconsider and forfeit a trip into the hills so that I can attend the rendezvous. I can look all I want to, but if I’m in the wrong location to begin with then….


Everybody,

I’ve never been to a rendezvous so I’m asking for advice from those of you who have attended in the past; “If you were me, would you attend the rendezvous if it meant that you had to postpone your exploration for another year?” Actually, I think that I already know the answer – just looking for confirmation. Thanks in advance.

Roc,

Because what Herman said was so different from the usual Holmes \ Petrasch versions, at this point I am almost thinking there might be THREE camps:
Holmes
Reiney and Julia (the traditional Petrasch camp)
Herman

I believe the only partner ever associated with Waltz (in every story) would be Weiser. Right now, I’m not going to get hung up on dates – I can’t even remember an anniversary and I don’t know how good Herman was with dates. Plus, I started reading the Cox notes last night and I right now I’m not so sure about the accuracy of the traditional dates. Remember, I personally don’t think there ever was a Weiser. If there was, Dr. Glover could find no record of him. I think that Waltz made Weiser up so he wouldn’t tell Julia and Reiney that he alone shot the Mexican miners. Blame the shooting on a bad judgment call that your partner advised you on, and all of a sudden you don’t look like such a bad guy after all.

As long as I’m talking about things I don’t believe – I don’t believe that Waltz ever walled up the tunnel. I think it was walled up when he found the mine. WHY cover up an empty tunnel that goes nowhere? Why would you risk that exposure (to accomplish essentially nothing) in territory that was so hostile your partner had just been murdered – probably tortured to death. I don’t think anybody would do that - and that line of thinking, followed to its logical conclusion is what lead me to believe that there never was a Weiser. Glover’s lack of evidence only supports my theory. I know, I know…. absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But come on, no tax records, no property deeds, and no census records of Weiser - that’s pretty strong evidence, or lack thereof. Sorry for rambling……

Best to You All,

Ashton

[cubfan64]

Ashton,

I know what you mean about the economy and all being a hindrance to getting out there more than once a year. That said, I was 100% confident I wouldn’t be able to make the Rendezvous this year after making each of the past 4 until I heard what author Dr. Thomas Glover was going to talk about Saturday night. I’m now about 70% sure that I’m going to find a way to get out there even if it’s only for two days. I may have to beg, borrow or otherwise sell off some crap on Ebay to pay for the plane ticket and rental car, but I’ll camp there in a tent for free and rent the cheapest car I can get if I can swing it.

If you didn’t see this post about Saturday night's talk at the Rendezvous, here is what I was told:

Dr. Glover will be speaking on the Ely Collection Saturday night at the Rendezvous. He has been in contact with the family for a number of years, and they decided to give him all of the material they had, which includes much new information concerning Waltz's death, his gold and Dick Holmes. There is also information concerning Adolph Ruth's death.

Anyone interested in the legends surrounding the LDM, and getting your information from a source that was close in time to the events, should make every effort to make it to the Rendezvous. Many questions that we have been asking over the years, will be answered.

Granted there’s always some “hype” surrounding stuff like this, and I suspect in the end we’ll have as many or more questions after the talk than we did going into it, but it sounds as though it has the potential to be quite interesting.

If you decide to go, do your best not to waste any time. Introduce yourself to someone like Joe who usually has a big crew hanging around his camper and he’ll definitely introduce you around to others. If you’re like me, you’ll be overwhelmed with all the side discussions going on and you’ll feel like you’re missing out if you don’t wander all over and meet everyone. It’s hard to focus, but from what I can tell of you, you’d be best off trying to focus on a few main things you want to hear and ask questions about and stick to that plan. Bring along a digital tape recorder and notepad so you can jot things down for later. Some folks don’t like to be recorded, but it never hurts to ask and if they don’t mind it sure is much easier to focus on talking and not trying hard to make notes.

Don’t be disappointed if you don’t get many direct answers or opinions to some of your questions. Folks tend to be pretty reserved around new people – I suppose that comes with the territory. Do lots of listening and look at it mostly as a fantastic opportunity to meet people in person who can become excellent contacts down the road – people who will be willing to answer more questions after they get to know you a bit.

If you can only show up for a short period of time, try to get there by mid-afternoon Friday, October 26 and leave Sunday morning October 28. Most all of the talking happens Friday night, throughout the day Saturday and culminating Saturday night. Many folks are already gone by Sunday morning and it’s usually just about empty by noon. Plan on drinking lots of caffeine and not getting much sleep Friday and Saturday nights as the conversations often continue with small groups until 4am or even later (earlier?). You’ll miss a lot if you go to bed early.

If you attend, will you walk away knowing you’re on the right track in your research, theories and searching? Probably not, but you will definitely have taken a step to get to know some people who can help in your searches and build on your theories.
Paul

[cubfan64]

Howdy Ashton,

As we get older, we appreciate the simple things more than we did before. We start to see the value of things we took for granted. This is because we get wise with age, it's not the other way around.

In my opinion, if Carl Gottfried knew where the mine was, he would have taken advantage of it. He would not have died working for others, nor would he have blamed Old Pete to the point of suicide, for not paying more attention.

Yes Carl Gottfried Herman Petrasch drove his brother "Old Pete" to suicide, for not paying attention. That very clearly tells you that he had no clue where the mine was.

Homar

Homar,

I thought "Old Pete" Petrasch was the nickname for Herman and Rinehart's dad?

[coazon de oro]

Paul,

According to Mr. Tom K., Rhinehart Petrasch worked as a caretaker at an archaeological ruin in Globe for many years before he committed suicide, and was known as "Old Pete" around Globe and Miami.

Homar

[cubfan64]

Paul,

According to Mr. Tom K., Rhinehart Petrasch worked as a caretaker at an archaeological ruin in Globe for many years before he committed suicide, and was known as "Old Pete" around Globe and Miami.

Homar

Ahh - I didn't realize that. I knew Rhinehart (sorry for my misspelling before) had worked as a caretaker at the Besh-Ba-Gowah ruins in Globe for a number of years, but never knew he was called "Old Pete." I wonder if Gottfried was also called "Old Pete?" Was Peter's Mesa and Peter's Canyon named for Rhinehart or for someone else?

[babymick1]

I wonder if Gottfried was also called "Old Pete?" ?[/quote]

Cabfan

Yes, they where named after Gottfried, He was called Old Pete

Babymick1

[coazon de oro]

Paul,

I know a lot of men who get tagged with the same nickname as their father, this is probably the case here. Gottfried Petrasch was Herman, and Rhinehart's father, and was known as "Old Pete". It is after Gottfried "Old Pete" Petrasch that Peters Canyon, and Peters Mesa got their names.

The northern section of Peters Mesa is also called Peters Dome, and also referred to as Lost Ridge.

Homar

[coazon de oro]

Babymick,

I didn't know you had already answered Cubfan's question while I was posting my reply.

Ashton,

If there is any truth to the placer gold that Herman mentioned, could it have been that Waltz had found the Mammoth mine before it was discovered after a flash flood in April of 1893 that exposed the vein? As I understand, their search did take them through there.

Homar

[cubfan64]

Got it - I had thought Gottfried (the father who later passed away in the asylum) was the only "Old Pete" - never registered with me that Rhinehart also had the same nickname.

I thought the Peter's Canyon, Mesa, Done area was named after Gottfried cause I know he spent a great deal of time in the Tortilla Mountain area in his later years - thanks for confirming that they were named after him. If I remember correctly, at least one of Jim's old campgrounds he used frequently was the same spot Gottfried used as his base for a number of years and stashed tools and supplies.

[roc2rol]

The way I read it
Herman was pretty darn sure of his dates
He comes off real strong in that dept.

On the Weiser question?

That is an interesting conjecture on your part
I never considered that Waltz intentionally made that name up.
If that was proven--- then anything said to Julia by Waltz—
is in serious doubt.
No?

But leaving aside that serious question

In the folklore of Lost Dutchman’s
that was bandied about during Waltz’s life
there were always 2 people involved on a lost mine

Syncretism of facts?
not sure at this junction…
Thanks agrin
roc