Mines in the Superstition Mountains

[Goldseeker]

Goldseeker,

RE: your statement; "I personally think the lost dutchman has been found. Whats the problem? Yes I wrote it and would again. Yes 20 years after the dutchman died, rich ore like his was discovered and worked by a company."

I may have asked this before, but if so, I never saw a reply.

What are the details in the way of evidence on which you base your opinion that the Dutchman has been found?

Character of the ore, based on someone's opinion, which is based on a visual examination, just won't hold up under scrutiny. Especially if it was done 20 years after the Dutchman's death. There was no Dutchman ore floating around for just anyone to make that kind of comparison during that time period.

Where did the information come from to make the call that the mine in question was the same mine as the one worked by Jacob Waltz?

There were only three people (possibilities) alive at that time who could have made that kind of call. Julia Thomas, Rhiney Petrasch and Dick Holmes, and they were all actively searching for the mine themselves, and... they were not broadcasting anything in the way of information that would help anyone identify the mine, or the landmarks around it that might possibly help anyone else find it.

So... How could your friend make the call?

You can believe your friend found it if you want to, but I seriously doubt that you will ever be able to make anyone else believe it.

Just my two cents worth.

Jim

I have no "proof". Like I already told you, one Bill McCaffrey professional mining engineer/prospector extradionaire/mine developer, told me what I already related to you. He knew his business, he once showed me a check for $133,000 and said 6 more were coming, one a year for his share in a mine he took over, proved, and sold. He told me dont be a miner, be a prospector, prove, develop, sell. His opinion was that it was found. I have no proof.

Let me ask you a question. How long have you been chasing this? (and so many more people too) and nothing has turned up. He could not have hidden it THAT well so.... there must be another reason nobody can find it. Hey cowboy, look all you want. And God bless and good luck. If its there I hope you find it. Sincerely.

As for me, there is plenty right here where there is enough evidence to support the storys. Its way closer than AZ; hey; I live right in the middle of a proven gold bearing region. And you know as well as I its still there. (gold in general, scattered throughout) So, I will hunt the CA desert, gold is gold, it does not matter if it comes from Az or Ca, gold is gold.

[Goldseeker]

Just my two cents if I may...


What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery? And how did it become lost? Why wouldn't they have mined it and moved on?

With technology the way it was way back then, (and there wasn't much) I do believe that most of the discovered gold was placer gold. Or in other words, gold that was discovered in alluvial deposits and was mined by water pressure, open pit, panning and tunneling. Most all of it that was discovered was more or less near the surface, and was moved by water flow from the main deposit. It was usually in nugget form and was easier to discover. Today much of the gold that's mined is microscopic and is extracted by different modern processes.

I personally believe that there is much gold still left out there to discover, as it's hard to believe that as much land mass as there is out there, every inch of it has been searched. I live and work in an area that is rich in gold and other minerals, and although it has been heavily searched through the years, there is still plenty left. Even with modern technology we're still discovering new deposits in the area I work. I don't believe that all of the placer gold has been discovered either as erosion keeps bringing more to the surface. Gold is where you find it I've been told.

As far as the "lost mine" stories go, I'm certain that some of them may be true but have been embellished through the years. You know how it is that if you were to have a long line of people and you were to whisper a short story to the first person in line and ask him to repeat it to the next person in line and so on, you wouldn't recognize it (the story) by the time it hit the end of the line. Not trying to cast a negative aspect on the stories, however, because as I said some of them may be quite true and there's many people who go out and follow-up on them, and that's okay! Will I go out and chase them myself, probably not. I personally enjoy getting out and poking around looking for new areas to discover. It's out there...

I agree with this. PITD you have a very logical mind. (never mind what mel said ha ha ) I would add this. In addition to a lot of placer being found (the above mentioned Bill McCaffrey and a few of us had this discussion also) the stuff showing on the surface and easily findable stuff made up the bulk of the finds. Hardrock I am talking about McCaffrey was of the opinion that 90% was still there for the finding. But that many people did not know what they were doing. Its a whole new ballgame with todays tech improvements. Thats why we fight desert closures. All the tech in the world wont help if they lock you put. (go away Sal) Also remember during the depression the desert was swarming with people looking for gold, who may or may not have known what they were doing. Plus today we have greater tech advances. Yes I think there is a good chance of coming upon a virgin find, or even a lost mine. I know I am interested in it.


One other thing. You said "who in their right mind..."
Now you know prospectors/miners are not in their right mind

[Jim Hatt]

His opinion was that it was found. I have no proof.

Goldseeker

Thank You, In light of that, Would it not be more appropriate for you to say that it was Bill McCaffrey's "OPINION" that the Lost Dutchman Mine was found, Instead of the all conclusive statement that THE LOST DUTCHMAN MINE HAS BEEN FOUND?

Let me ask you a question. How long have you been chasing this? (and so many more people too) and nothing has turned up.

And... How do you know that nothing has turned up?
As you just got through agreeing with PITD's statement that...

What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery?

I personally do not completely agree with the above statement, but since you do, you should understand how appropriate it is as a reply to your question.

Jim

[Goldseeker]

His opinion was that it was found. I have no proof.

PITD

Thank You, In light of that, Would it not be more appropriate for you to say that it was Bill McCaffrey's "OPINION" that the Lost Dutchman Mine was found, Instead of the all conclusive statement that THE LOST DUTCHMAN MINE HAS BEEN FOUND?

Let me ask you a question. How long have you been chasing this? (and so many more people too) and nothing has turned up.

And... How do you know that nothing has turned up?
As you just got through saying yourself...

What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery?

I personally do not completely agree with the above statement, but since you see it that way, you should understand how appropriate it is as a reply to your question.

Jim

No one has ever claimed finding it. You said how do I know? I dont; but what you just said, if someone did find something or even it, then they found it. And finding artifacts would do nothing for me, find the gold or nothing. I dont collect trinkets. I dont like junk. Find the gold or nothing.

Being as McCaffrey was fairly sucessful, his opinion would carry more weight than most. I did see that check with my own eyes. And he did find 2 virgin deposits of gold. Yes it was his opinion. Me, it doesn't matter, I have other areas to check. Besides, look at all the money I would spend on 9mm rounds killing all those damn d/b rattlers that they say are all over..

Dont get upset with me if its my opinion that its found. Prove me wrong; go find it. I have my own leads to follow come fall/winter.

[Jim Hatt]

Goldseeker

You are as entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else is, and I would passionately defend you right to express it under any circumstances!

I only get a burr under my saddle when, people stack multiple ASSUMPTIONS (or opinions) on top of each other to form a CONCLUSION, and expect me to accept it as Fact. Especially when all of the stacked assumptions (or opinions) totally rely of the very first assumption being correct.

Jim

[Jim Hatt]

Just my two cents if I may...

What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery?

Sorry PITD, I hadn't had enough coffee yet at 5 AM and mistook your comment above as a response from Goldseeker. I believe I edited my replies as necessary to correct my error and direct them to the right person.

Now I will reply to your question above.

Goldseeker was referring to a mine that he believed to be the "Dutchman" and said that it had been worked out by a "Company". Assuming that the Company was a legal and up-front organization, it would be reasonably safe, and logical to assume that they had filed a mining claim on the property. After that was done they could advertise the find and start selling stock to cover the expense of mining the claim.
Standard Operating Procedure Then and Now.

The only circumstance I can think of (Then or Now) right off the top of my head, where someone would be inclined to keep their discovery "Quiet", would be if for some reason they could not file a legal Mining Claim on the discovery. IE: If it was located on someone Else's Private Property, or, on Federal or State land that was closed to mining.

Did I misunderstand something?

Jim

[Goldseeker]

Just my two cents if I may...

What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery?

Sorry PITD, I hadn't had enough coffee yet at 5 AM and mistook your comment above as a response from Goldseeker. I believe I edited my replies as necessary to correct my error and direct them to the right person.

Now I will reply to your question above.

Goldseeker was referring to a mine that he believed to be the "Dutchman" and said that it had been worked out by a "Company". Assuming that the Company was a legal and up-front organization, it would be reasonably safe, and logical to assume that they had filed a mining claim on the property. After that was done they could advertise the find and start selling stock to cover the expense of mining the claim.
Standard Operating Procedure Then and Now.

The only circumstance I can think of (Then or Now) right off the top of my head, where someone would be inclined to keep their discovery "Quiet", would be if for some reason they could not file a legal Mining Claim on the discovery. IE: If it was located on someone Else's Private Property, or, on Federal or State land that was closed to mining.

Did I misunderstand something?

Jim

Again, I am only telling you what I heard. I dont give a rats azz about that mine, I have my own leads here, much closer to home. Go find it. Put your email on here and I will send you a site I know about that tells about the many mysterious deaths that have occurred in the superstitutions. If you want.

[Goldseeker]

Just my two cents if I may...

What person in their right mind, (then and now)), would tell "anyone" if they made a large discovery?

Sorry PITD, I hadn't had enough coffee yet at 5 AM and mistook your comment above as a response from Goldseeker. I believe I edited my replies as necessary to correct my error and direct them to the right person.

Now I will reply to your question above.

Goldseeker was referring to a mine that he believed to be the "Dutchman" and said that it had been worked out by a "Company". Assuming that the Company was a legal and up-front organization, it would be reasonably safe, and logical to assume that they had filed a mining claim on the property. After that was done they could advertise the find and start selling stock to cover the expense of mining the claim.
Standard Operating Procedure Then and Now.

The only circumstance I can think of (Then or Now) right off the top of my head, where someone would be inclined to keep their discovery "Quiet", would be if for some reason they could not file a legal Mining Claim on the discovery. IE: If it was located on someone Else's Private Property, or, on Federal or State land that was closed to mining.

Did I misunderstand something?

Jim

One other point. IF, and I say , IF IF IF, it was found and worked by a company (and maybe it was a small co. I dont know) this would have been a loooonnnng time ago, remember, laws then were much different than they are now, not to mention communications then were very slow. Back then, they were happy to read a 3 week old newspaper...


(mysterious humming noise heard in the background....PITD humming the old "coasters" music group song "Charlie brown" whys everybody always pickin' on me.....)

[Jim Hatt]

No Goldseeker,
That's me humming the old Kenny Rogers (Before he turned Country) Song:
"I just stopped in to see what condition my condition was in".

Jim

[Desert Cruiser]

Well here it is --- first off I told Goldseeker his attitude was very negative and he replied it was only because his acquaintance told told him the Lost Dutchman had been found --- Well your posts with that (it's been found attitude) also included the post about Peglegs Gold. Remember that? Enough, you should realize that no ones said your deposits your looking for have already been found. So if your really interested in this Prospecting & Treasure Hunting then act like it.

Now some facts: 90% of the placer gold in Ca in the motherlode is still there waiting to be found, And it is every day by recreational dredgers. I know I was one of them for a lot of years, mostly on the weekends, but sometimes for longer periods too, and yes we found a lot of gold. Nontaxable gold. And we didn't have to do any location or claims.

I've already proved to myself that the treasures are there, or at least some of them. Which ones are what makes it fun to search for them. It takes a lot of research and time. Jim Hatt I'm sure has done that and he must have a very good reason to believe in it or he wouldn't have spent so much time on it. How could they hid it --- easy collapse a mountain side onto the cave or mine entrance to hid it. The Indians did the same thing after they ran the Spanish out of the country so when they came back they wouldn't find any more gold. Their greatest treasure was Turquoise not gold, in fact they hated gold.

There are different kinds of people in this world, some smart and some not so smart. The really smart ones wouldn't tell anyone if they found a treasure --- the complications are mind boggling and in the end you'd lose most of it, and if nothing else when you sold it (if you don't know where to do this) you'd pay an enormous tax on the income. On the other hand the other ones would run out and have to tell their FRIENDS and this would be a big mistake as mentioned above --- this has happened. Maybe you missed this ----------------
http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=221
So if your a prospector then show us your gold.

The story I put in here about the Baja Treasure. I actually met the man in question and saw his find. This story was related to me by a gentleman who worked for Nat Geo for years and now builds museums for income. Very knowledgeable person. But the main thing here is; another treasure story that's true and may never be found, or maybe it will be.

Try not be so negative and if you don't know anything about the subject, First hand that is, then don't knock it, instead read and learn, you could pick up an interesting lead. By the way treasure hunting is the best way to find riches --- think about it; someone else has done all the work for you in most cases, and in some have even poured the gold into bars refining it for you. Good luck out there.

Don....