The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

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Marius
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Marius » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:02 am

RG

You wrote : " .. the treasure belongs to them ... not us "
And who said this ?
A treasure can change hands and place .

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Choto » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:21 am

Marius wrote:RG

You wrote : " .. the treasure belongs to them ... not us "
And who said this ?
A treasure can change hands and place .
Marius,
Your post adds a little clarity.
"Treasure" here can only mean "worked" valuables that have been cached which, do maintain an ownership. Meaning, if the SOJ hid things in the SWA, they maintain ownership. I do not think that "treasure" includes a mine or a mineral deposit. Just my opinion.

A quote from Dead Men Do Tell Tails:

Weaver's Needle Treasure: According to Ed Piper (now deceased) an Apache chief named "White Horse", whom Ed had known intimately as a boy in Oklahoma, related that a wagon train of Spanish people came to the Superstition Mountains from Globe, Arizona. They chose a natural landmark (Weaver's Needle) to deposit gold bars, jewels, statues and other artifacts. It was said they mounted the needle and deposited the huge cache inside a cave near the top, then sealed the entrance. When the cave was sealed."

There may be Jesuit valuables cached in the SWA.

However, DO NOT confuse this Jesuit cache story with the story of the Peraltas.
The Peraltas did mine the Superstitions and chances are, they left behind a cache.
Some of their mines have already been located but, there are more.

Study the Peralta-Fish Map.
Read Clay's story.

Jesuit mining in the Superstitions?
Possible. No, if they are being truthful.

I think that the mines in the SWA were discovered by the Peraltas, circa 1800.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Marius » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:42 am

Choto

I never confused the Peraltas's mines and caches with the Padre's treasure .
Now , about that story with the wagon train full of gold bars , jewels and statues , I believe I can give you an answer .
From my research , the gold stuff from that story , was buried in two different places .The one is related in Ed Piper story and the second in Walter Perrine story . This two places are about half mile apart , with the Ed's to be at the top of a mountain and the Walter's to be below Ed's , close to the canyon floor .
The correct clue from the Ed's story , is how from the cave you can see the WN through an " eye "( natural stone arch ) . IMO , this is the " eye of the Needle " .
Read what wrote ( he didn't know -what and where was this place ) one of the best dowser in the world about this place ( Ed's ), after he saw a picture from the region and pinpointed a place :

" This is the only gold treasure in this map (where the blue arrow points).. it is man-made gold.. statutes weighing around 40kgs in an iron container, ALSO another iron container containing man-made gold bars, gold coins and gold necklace, but this 2nd container weighs 200kgs..
I don't know their culture in that part of the world.. it is in a vacuum with air inside (not buried), 5 dead bodies around it (also not buried), I don't know, is it a burial room?? Like I said I don't know their culture.. but the older one is laid down opposite to remaining four bodies, his head heading north, however the other 4 bodies are laid down beside each other but their heads are heading south.
Anyway, vertical depth to gold: around 3 meters deep..
P.S : No "evil magic" is involved in this culture's burial rituals.. "

After , I pinpointed on the same picture the Sombrero mine which is very close by , and he answered :

" Well, the green area you marked is a mine shaft.. my point is the only treasure man-made gold in the whole map.. the 5 bodies were not shot.. this is a fact.. No traces of bullets or firearms..why do they have one container of gold statutes?? Where did they get it from?? Beside, all the gold in the two boxes is man-made.. there is no natural mine gold.. The gold is mixed with copper "

Now , for the Walter Perrine story , they used to cache the gold in an ancient underground facility which has two very long corridors . Read what the same dowser wrote about this place :

" YES YOU ARE RIGHT.. THE CAVE IS LIKE A LONG LONG HALLWAY.. INFACT THERE ARE TWO OF THEM.. ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS LIVED UNDERGROUND FOR SURE.. BIG STACKS OF GOLD BARS ARE IN 6 LOCATIONS WITHIN THE TWO CAVES.. HOWEVER, THIS AREA -WITHOUT ANY DOUBT- IS FULL OF "SEVERE" EVIL MAGIC (INTENDED TO DISTRACT OTHERS FROM REACHING TO THEIR VALUABLE BELONGINGS), WHICH FACT MAKES DOWSING PRETTY IMPOSSIBLE FOR EVEN SKILLFUL DOWSERS BECAUSE EVERY HOUR YOU DOWSE THIS AREA YOU WILL SEE SAME TARGET MOVING FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.. THIS IS OF COURSE IF THEY MANAGED TO CATCH A TREASURE OR EVEN AN ACTUAL UNDERGROUND CAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE."

Whithin this " evil magic " that my friend and partner wrote , could be a big magical snake which could be " killed " only with specific words .
Last edited by Marius on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Choto » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:53 am

So, this seems to be about recovering worked valuables that were cached by the SOJ, allegedly around the time of the expulsion and not about their mining the Superstitions. One well written sentence would have made that clear.

Plausible, if not somewhat anticlimactic.

Perhaps the partnership is simply an effort by the SOJ to recoup recent financial losses which, are considerable.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Marius » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:58 pm

Choto

About Peralta's mining in the Superstitions . Do you remember when we have debated the " Cuenta de Oro del Rio Salado del Norte " ( Bulbridge ) map in the other bus station ?
You asked me if that map was a copy from an original . Almost the same map is depicted on a rock wall in the middle of the Superstitions . If you would know ( I know ) where this petroglyph is , then is not difficult to understand to what region is refering the map .
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Choto » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:09 am

Marius wrote:Choto

About Peralta's mining in the Superstitions . Do you remember when we have debated the " Cuenta de Oro del Rio Salado del Norte " ( Bulbridge ) map in the other bus station ?
You asked me if that map was a copy from an original . Almost the same map is depicted on a rock wall in the middle of the Superstitions . If you would know ( I know ) where this petroglyph is , then is not difficult to understand to what region is refering the map .
Marius,

Do you have a higher resolution image to share? If you don't mind, I would like to run the "petroglyph" photo thru ImageJ which might reveal additional details.

Very interesting.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Marius » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:34 am

Choto

This is the real image of the petroglyph . The previous petroglyph map image was a reversed one to match with the " Cuenta .. " map .
i hope this image is of a better resolution . This site don't accept pictures over 100 kb .
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Choto » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:25 pm

Marius wrote:Choto

This is the real image of the petroglyph . The previous petroglyph map image was a reversed one to match with the " Cuenta .. " map .
i hope this image is of a better resolution . This site don't accept pictures over 100 kb .
Thank you Marius - May I re-post it after running the photo thru ImageJ?

Edit: Marius, that wall is itching to be shot in IR but I don't see the Jesuit connection.

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by Marius » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:54 am

Choto

This map is for the Peraltas . Not Jesuit connection here ( maybe ).

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by cubfan64 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:26 pm

You both know this is the infamous "Master Map" that's located not far from Charlebois springs right? Folks who saw the original years ago say things have been added to it and removed from it over time.

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