Treasure Trove Permits

[Jim Hatt]

I began my research into Treasure trove Permits back in the Spring of 1992, when I mistakenly thought I had found a walled up tunnel, in a photograph I had taken during one of my trips into the Superstition Mountains. The "walled up tunnel" turned out to be nothing more than a badly fractured wall of solid rock, but I did not discover that until I had completely researched the Treasure Trove Permit process, and obtained a copy of the Wilderness Act and a blank Treasure Trove Permit application.

The first step of my research consisted of a call to the Mesa Ranger District where I spoke with Mr. Paul "Pete" Libby, which was followed up by a letter from the Mesa Ranger District Manager, Mr. Donald Van Driel, that briefly explained the Treasure Trove Permit process, and referred me to Mr. Pete Libby for any further questions.

Letter from Donald Van Driel


I directed my reply to this letter to Pete Libby requesting copies of the Wilderness Act and a Treasure Trove Permit application.

Letter to Pete Libby


Looking back at these letters now, after nearly 20 years. I can fully appreciate the kindness and patience, they exhibited towards the "Ready to conquer the process" young "Upstart" that I was at the time. Obviously these true Professionals in their field, had dealt with many ambitious, overly confident and inexperienced Treasure Hunters like myself, many times in the past.

Treasure trove Permit Application

[coazon de oro]

Hello Jim, and fellow treasure hunters. The dutchman never mentioned any church relics or treasure. All he claimed to cache in the mine itself was gold ore, or extracted raw gold, worth around 75,000 ( around 4,000,000 at today's market). This does not constitute treasure, at least not uncle sam. A treasure trove permit is usless here, is it not? So what has a man to profit if he finds the LDM and loses it to the government?

[somehiker]

Thanks Jim:
For posting the app and relating your experience,They sure don't make it easy,but it appears to be the only way that one can set the stage for further exploration and establish a claim to the results.
Hi Coazon de oro :
Waltz found what was possibly one of the mines that had been previously worked by the Spanish.The possibility also exists that it was the Jesuits that were the first Europeans to exploit the mineral wealth of the Superstions and surrounding area.It is also possible that the range,being a great place to hide out,or hide treasure/relics may have been the place chosen to do so.Waltz went in there looking for gold ore,not Jesuit treasure and a mine is all that he found as a result.
Today,he would first have to file for a troving permit......before swinging a pick.
The same rules apply.

Regards:SH.

[Jim Hatt]

SH, & CDO,

Bringing in what Waltz said or did, is a little beyond the scope, of the topic of Treasure Trove Permits.

From the point of view of the Forest Service (as I understand it). It really doesn't matter if you think you are going to dig up a buried treasure or the LDM itself. You still have to go through the Treasure Trove Permit process, before you can do any serious digging in a Wilderness Area. No matter how strong a case you make for what you think you have found. (Your basis for applying for a Permit to dig) You still do not know for sure what is there until you do the excavation.

Assuming you get a permit to dig... The final result of what you find, determines what other Laws kick in, and take over at that time.

Jim

[mikek]

hello Jim, any way to find out who has active permits from BLM /NFS? Mike K.

[Jim Hatt]

Hi Mike K. and welcome to the forums!

I've never really checked into that. I don't know if those applications are treated as "confidential" or not. Seems like they would be public records tho.

Maybe someone else in the forums can give you a better answer.

Best,

Jim,

[treasurehntr]

Jim, Re: Treasure Trove
In the letter that Mr. Van Driel sent you back, he stated that Quote" Issuance of a permit will depend on the substantiality of this evidence" end quote.

What kind of evidence do you think would be acceptable ? I mean short of laying a gold bar on their desk,and their next question would be "Where did you dig this up at" ooops .. Do you know if metal detectors / ground penetrating radar is allowable in the wilderness area. I would imagine a read out from GPR would be pretty compelling evidence.

Another way I guess would be to present evidence of treasure signs and symbols.
Any thoughts on substantiality evidence ?
Best, Treasurehntr

[Jim Hatt]

Treasurehntr,

I have been carrying metal detectors and Proton magnetometers out in the mtns for years, and nobody has ever complained about it. I think it would be very difficult to show that doing electronic surveillance of any kind, in the Wilderness Area, violates any portion of the Wilderness Act.

I wouldn't even bother trying to use GPR equipment out there. They are designed for surveillance of areas where the ground has a consistent density, and they identify any inconsistency in the density of that area. ie; A void or higher density spot.

There is so much dirt and rock mixed together out there that the GPR readout would be almost impossible to read. Not only that but they require a rather smooth surface to be dragged over because bumps and jars can cause erratic operation and report false targets.

You might also want to review the discussion at: http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... ig+#p13931 for more information about using metal detectors in the Wilderness Area.

Best,

Jim

[treasurehntr]

Thanks for the information Jim, and the link.
Best, Mike ....